Hi, I'm new to coffee roasting and just this weekend I received my Caffe Rosto roaster and a few different types of coffee from Sweet Marias. I roasted 4 oz. of Moka Kadir blend for 11 minutes, what is supposed to be Full City+ according to the roaster's instructions. The roast turned out nicely, dark but no oil on the beans, and since I couldn't wait to try some I ground it after a few hours and it made the most wonderful cup of espresso! My question is how do I tell first crack from second crack, etc? I think I can hear what might be called a cracking or popping sound, but it's hard to tell over the sound of the beans spinning in the roaster. I'd like to be able to duplicate my roasting results, but since my first roast in the machine I've noticed some types of beans will roast much darker at 11 minutes producing dark oily beans after 24 hours, while others will be lighter, like the Moka Kadir blend. I know I shouldn't blindly trust the timer on the roaster, but I'm finding it difficult to tell when the "...roast is stopped while second crack is extremely rapid, and shows no sign of slowing down", etc. Any pointers or resources I could look to? Thanks, Mike homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
Mike, Welcome and glad to hear you're already having success! From my experiences with the AlpenRost, 1st crack is usually individual snaps that are typically separated by a few seconds and usually louder in volume than 2nd crack. 2nd crack is more muted in volume and the cracks are steady with little or no pause between crack sounds. As others have noted, there is usually a pause between 1st and 2nd where the cracking sounds die down. The other thing to watch is false 1st cracks. Sometimes a lone bean will snap a minute or two early (before the true 1st crack begins). On the AlpenRost, this usually occurs if a bean get's lodged in the drum and doesn't get to tumble with the rest. A while back, someone in this group shared the 10 second rule for 1st cracks that has been useful. If the true 1st crack has begun, the other beans will usually start cracking within 10 seconds. If the rest of them don't start, it was likely an early bean. One thing's for sure, unless you've got a hearing impairment, with experience you'll get very good at distinguishing the cracks. Hope this helps, Coffenut :^) <Snip> homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
After posting my last message I browsed around the Sweet Maria's Web site and found a wealth of info on the subject. Serves me right for not RTFM ;-) Mike M - |
To Mike M: Glad you discovered the resources. For some beans, I and others found, there may be a big overlap between 1st and 2nd crack. Others have a big gap between. Sitll others seem not to have a 2nd crack no matter how long they roast. Carl T. homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
On Wed, 4 Apr 2001 22:25:59 -0500, cthomas wrote: <Snip> Case in point... This morning, in my HWP, I roasted 2 batches of SM's new crop Mandheling -- these beans are by far the largest of any that I have. Usually, and I believe this is the experience of most HWP users, the beans roast very evenly with 1st crack being a relatively short distinct event separated from 2nd by a definite interval. The Mandheling, however, was completely different. First crack was a sort of stretched out spasmodic event that, with the exception of one loud pop at at the beginning, I could have easily missed if I had not been paying attention. I stopped the roasts at the point where 2nd crack had reached what others have described as 'rolling', waited for the cooling cycle to end and dumped the beans into a mesh colander. Upon visual inspection the roasts were extremely uneven. Some beans had clearly been into 2nd crack and little craters and bean fragments were in evidence. Other beans looked like they had just made it to City. Strangest of all, some beans actually seemed to be half and half -- at least one with a crater on one end and a light brown color at the other. I assume that this is probably unique to hot-air roasters and that the roast would be much more even in a commercial roaster or the Alp. I am not at this point complaining as it seems that, theoretically at least, this should be a very interesting roast to sample in a couple of days with flavors from almost the entire roast spectrum. On the downside, the mosquitoes are finally out in force and I barely made it back into the house before the blood loss was too severe. I was considering getting a zapper but, given the size of the mosquitoes, I'm afraid the power drops during the zaps might confuse the HWP's chip. John Blumel homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
From: "John Blumel" Subject: Re: +RE: New to roasting Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 10:10:54 -0500 (CDT) <Snip> Hot air roasters give supposedly more even roasting than direct heat or convection type of similar capacity. Together with its strong power to take away moisture and other components away from the bean, in my opinion the fluid bed types are better suited for lighter end of roast especially with new crop of washed varieties. Since there have been several postings discussing about light roasts I have tried a few but I had to double roast to get even result in my oven. (First time at low temp to get some moisture out, still yellowish color, but not to caramelize any part of the coffee, let it sit overnight, then the next day to push to cinnamon roast.) Anyhow, I need frequent attention to make even roast in my gas oven. <Snip> Do you happen to know how does the zapper works? -- Ryuji Suzuki Q. What is your real message? A. Keep a good head and always carry a light bulb. (Bob Dylan 1965) homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
On Thu, 05 Apr 2001 11:55:06 -0400, Ryuji Suzuki -- JF7WEX wrote: <Snip> Well, I've never actually owned one but they seem to be basically a light that works mostly at the UV end of the spectrum, which attracts the mosquitoes, surrounded by an electrical grid. The mosquitoes go for the light and zap! They hit the electric grid and die a horrible death from electrocution. People don't seem to use these in Louisiana -- the local Power Grid probably couldn't handle the current draw -- but they were quite popular in New York and Ohio in the 80s and early 90s. Auditorially you get a sort of zzz ... zzz . zzzz ....... zzz effect as they hit the grid with the occasional zzzzzzzzzzzz that is probably caused by either a moth or a mosquito that spent its larval stage in a pool outside a nuke plant. I've also recently seen a device that sports a CO2 tank and, I believe, some sort of vacuum trap. The CO2 simulates breath and attracts the mosquitoes and just when they think they are about to get a meal, they get sucked into the trap. Ha! Of course, the worst mosquitoes I have ever seen were at Wonder Lake in Denali National Park, Alaska. Not only were they huge but they were in clouds so thick that the competition for blood made them go after each other. Just to get out of there alive you had to wear Desert Storm surplus insect repellent that left most of the other tourists with minor neurological damage. John Blumel homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
Of course, the worst mosquitoes I have ever seen were at Wonder Lake in Denali National Park, Alaska. John Blumel ---------------- John, Isn't the mosquito the Alaska State bird? John - wandering around in deep southern Texas homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
John, Your experience with Mandehling is probably just characteristic of the coffee, and not an indication that something is wrong. Anyway, let us know how it turns out. BTW, do some research before you get a zapper. I've never owned one, but it's my understanding that they are useless for mosquito-control, and only attract relatively harmless insects, like moths. One way to check it out might be to look in the tray of the zapper at your local drive-in restaurant (or where ever) and see what species of corpses are there. Just a thought. Free e-mail! you A service of www.WallaWallaGuide.com homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
The new crop Mandheling that I have is normal size and roasts normally except for much fewer pops in first crack. This seems to be typical of the Mandheling, as last year's crop was similar in behavior. This is where time and/or temperature may give you better results than watching and listening. Your description of unevenness seems to indicate poor mixing. Double check your assembly and look for damaged or poorly fitting parts. If parts are ok then reduce the amount of beans. IMO the most even roasting occurs in the true fluid bed roasters that use a full diameter bottom screen. Are you sure a brain cell did not misfire when you typed Mandheling and meant Maragogype? These are easiy distinguished as large due to the normally 20+ screen size. These are much more difficult to lift in the airstream and require a smaller load. -- ---------- <Snip> <Snip> homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
On Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:00:30 -0400, Ken Mary wrote: <Snip> No, I don't even have any of the Maragogype. It's quite probable that, as you suggest, I would need to reduce the load size to get an even roast with this bean. On the other hand, depending on how it tastes -- I'll probably let it rest 48-72 hours before I try it -- I may just want to leave things as they are. (I'm pretty sure there are no problems with the roaster and that it was properly assembled. Of course, if all my roasts start to turn out uneven...) John Blumel homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
<Snip> it's my understanding that they are useless for mosquito-control, and only attract relatively harmless insects, like moths. One way to check it out might be to look in the tray of the zapper at your local drive-in restaurant (or where ever) and see what species of corpses are there. Just a thought. << Andrew and John, The zapper uses a UV light to attract all sorts of bugs and electrocutes (fries?) them between high voltage-charged grids. It think it is correct that they are less ejjective against mosquitoes, probably because the mosquito is more infrared sensitive (human temperature) that UV sensitive (daytime navigation). However, most of the stores that I've seen sell zappers also sell small tabs thatget attached outside the grid. As I recall it acts like a mosquito sex lure and increases the effectiveness of the zapper. I've got two and there are almost as many fried mosquito corpses as any others. If you use a zapper, don't put it upwind of any food prep or eating area as the dust from the crematorium is not sterile! Since I moved back east from SoCal, I've had to learn to live again with mosquitoes. We never saw them in California. When we lived in Massachusetts, we lived near a marsh (swamp) and every night as sundown approached in the summer, this black mist would come up out of the "marsh". Time to get inside fast. That's where I learned the value of the zapper, though there it barely made a dent in the population and had to be cleaned daily the bodies were so dense. The upside of the experience was that that's where I learned the value of whole bean coffee. That was 20 years ago. Now I've learned the value of roasting my own coffee, have two zappers, and fewer mosquitoes than New England, so I am looking forward to sitting out in the evening sipping my newly roasted and ground coffee, watching the deer, and listening to the woodsey sounds not overwhelmed by the zzz ... zzz . zzzz ....... zzz of frying mosquitoes. Cheers, Carl T. homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
Hi John, I've been a Hearthware owner for about 1-1/2 years now. When I detect that a bean was roasting unevenly (during the roast), I pick the unit up every 60 seconds or so and rotate it a bit to mix the beans around. I also make a mental note to use less of those beans per batch in the future. Actually you can tell that a bean is going to roast unevenly even before the uneven roasting is detecatable by eye. If the beans are hardly moving around, except near the center, then you are going to have problems. I have a great digital scale and have, at times, thought to see what the weight differences are between the same volumes of beans. My guess is that the beans which roast unevenly have a higher density. I seem to recall that I discovered some time back that 80 grams was about the right amount to use, regardless of volume. hth, Keith Parker <Snip> homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
On 4/8/01 1:50 PM, Keith Parker wrote: <Snip> Yes, I think that the bean volume/mass was the culprit here. Hearthware recommends 3oz by weight which would be 84g so 80g would probably work well in most cases. I guess I should keep the under the rim of the measuring cup until I get a scale. John Blumel homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
That's interesting. I usually have successful roasts at 3.5 oz. or sometimes slightly more. Maybe my fan is slightly more powerful. Any others care to post their successful roast weights for the HWP? Ed Needham |
On Mon, 9 Apr 2001 08:52:48 -0400, Ed Needham wrote: <Snip> I don't weigh my beans, but I do always level off the beans to just below the rim of the measuring spoon. I started doing this when I got some inconsistent roasts from certain beans like the Kona. Reducing the amount of beans improved the agitation and the evenness of the roast. OTOH, I recently got some Costa Rican HGA Orosi from Tom and regardless of how light I make the measure, I still get an inconsistent roast with a wide range of bean colors. However, the coffee tastes great and I figure that the variations just add to the complexity of the cup. Ralph Cohen rpcohen homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
If I use the scoop instead of my scale, I almost always heap the beans on as much as I can. Must be some differences in our machines. I get really consistent roasts with mine doing it that way with most varieties. Very pretty roasts, usually taken at least to the second crack, for a mildly shiny matte finish, and looking about a shade lighter than dark chocolate. Ed Needham |
Ed Needham asked: > others care to post their successful roast weights for the HWP I had a problem w/ a replacement HWP roasting unevenly out of the box so cut back to 2.5 oz from the 3 that I had roasted successfully in its dead predecessor. It works fine. Probably should have returned it but just couldn't bear packing up yet another Hearthware. Mostly, I stick with the Gourmet which has always been more reliable for me, though I had to return one of them as well... Carola homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
I will be out of the office starting 11/26/2002 and will not return until 12/02/2002. I will respond to your message when I return. homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
Hello everyone :) I roasted my first batch of beans in my new Zach and Dan= i roaster last night, and I'm excited to learn more (especially since I think I burned the beans). I've got a couple of questions.. well I've got many more than a couple of questions but I've been productively spending my work day surfing the net to answer some others. :) Since I am new to this, I am eager to roast many small batches. Does anyon= e know the minimum quantity of beans I can roast in the Z&D? Also, just something I have to ask -- I've always seen that the recommended proportion of grounds for brewing is 2 tablespoons per ~6oz desired coffee.. But I've always used 1 tablespoon because that's just how I started out and the strength has always seemed on par with coffee I've had that was brewed by others (individuals and businesses). Does everyone really use 2 tablespoons? Should I? Thanks in advance for any and all help. |
In my 32 oz french press pot, I use 56 grams of coffee. That's one tablespoon (7g) per 4 oz cup. In my 12 cup drip, I use the same ratio. I have never measured the actual ounces per cup, but it produces good coffee. If I were to double that ratio, or even make it 1.5 times, there wouldn't b= e enough room in the cone filter for the coffee. I've tried bumping the leve= l of coffee in my press pot and it just seems like a waste of coffee because it certainly doesn't make it better or much stronger. On 1/6/06, chickpea _ wrote: <Snip> I <Snip> t <Snip> my <Snip> ow <Snip> had <Snip> |
On Fri, Jan 06, 2006 at 01:57:26PM -0600, Wesley Simon wrote: <Snip> I did a fair bit of experimenting and have found that 56g to 32oz is the right ratio (for me) in the Krups Moka Brew. ~/Matt |
<Snip> Most Americans make their coffee way too weak. Most Americans also think that Maxwell House is good coffee. And that they are middle class. Despite my snobbery, what matters is not what I think, it is what tastes good to you. What everyone else does is irrelevant. Play around a bit, roast lighter, roast darker, smell the smoke (which is the best way I've found to know when to stop a roast) and make coffee that tastes good to you. Unless you burn your beans, brew really weak and add H2SO4 flavoured syrup to your coffee (before the Cremora, of course), you are doing it the right way. If it tastes good to you. Be well, Lissa -- People who drink coffee have been shown to commit suicide less frequently than people who don't. Jeffery Steingarten, _It Must've Been Something I Ate_ |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Minimum amt fill to dark roast line |
Wesley & Matt -- thanks for the tip! I'll experiment with that ratio and see how I like it. Lissa -- you've got a great point. I've really enjoyed my coffee previousl= y (my favorite source of roasted beans is Trader Joe's, and I have an auto-drip) with the 1 tablespoon for 6oz ratio, but I was wondering what I was missing if others used 2 tbs to produce something that seemed to me ver= y similar to my 1 tbs (actually I usually think my coffee is stronger than what I get elsewhere). Regardless of what others do, however, I'll do some more experimenting of my own to see if I like it stronger. Barry -- great to know, thanks! :) I'm guessing the "dark roast line" is new, because there is very little explanation of it (and it wasn't in the video, nor on most pictures I see). I have learned that roasting fewer beans for the same amount of time will result in a darker roast, and that i= n turn has become my explanation for that line. It's interesting to learn that it is also a minimum fill line. Thanks! On 1/6/06, Barry Luterman wrote: <Snip> I <Snip> t <Snip> my <Snip> ow <Snip> had <Snip> |
Depends on the brew method and most importantly, your own tastes. For press pot, ground coarse, I do use 2T. per 4-5-oz "tasse" but for drip, I generally use 4-5 2T scoops for an 8-c. pot. The markings on my Swiss Gold filter cone confirm that. I think it makes a nice cup, but some folks think even that's too strong! (They tend to be instant drinkers who load up on the milk and sweetener). 8 scoops for a drip pot would be overly strong, almost like *$ (which I think brews its lighter blends ultra-strong so they have the corporate flavor profile customers expect). They also want to sell more coffee (beans or ground). On Jan 6, 2006, at 1:47 PM, chickpea _ wrote: <Snip> Sandy www.sandyandina.com |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Yes, I use two Tablespoons per 6 ounces. I would not suggest anything less, at least for these quality beans. I think 2 tablespoons of a robusta type coffee would be tough to take. That's what I find with a number of folks. They water down the Folgers type coffee so they can stand them and that's coffee for them. Consequently, they have a hard time making a transition to the correct strength of a fine coffee. From: homeroast-admin [mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of chickpea _ Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 2:47 PM To: homeroast Subject: +new to roasting Hello everyone :) I roasted my first batch of beans in my new Zach and Dani roaster last night, and I'm excited to learn more (especially since I think I burned the beans). I've got a couple of questions.. well I've got many more than a couple of questions but I've been productively spending my work day surfing the net to answer some others. :) Since I am new to this, I am eager to roast many small batches. Does anyone know the minimum quantity of beans I can roast in the Z&D? Also, just something I have to ask -- I've always seen that the recommended proportion of grounds for brewing is 2 tablespoons per ~6oz desired coffee.. But I've always used 1 tablespoon because that's just how I started out and the strength has always seemed on par with coffee I've had that was brewed by others (individuals and businesses). Does everyone really use 2 tablespoons? Should I? Thanks in advance for any and all help. |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. To answer your brewing question first. If the coffee which you are = brewing suits you continue doing what you are doing. I think the = accepted answer is that if you use too little coffee you will over = extract. Brew the coffee with 2 tbs / 6 fld oz and add water to the = brew if you desire weaker coffee. Coarseness of the grind and the time = the grounds are in contact with the water get into the act as well so = you should experiment to find what you like. Now about the Z&D. You should be able to roast any amount which the = auger will agitate properly but keep in mind that smaller loads roast = faster (backwards from a fluid bed roaster) and may require less = preheat. Also the profile will change. With an un-modified Z&D when = you find a profile which you like, you should be consistant with your = batch size. If you want to see just how nuts you can get with a Z&D check this = string: http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/homeroast/187588?Page=1 You will find pictures and schematics of my Z&D in the string. Phil |
Two tablespoons for a six ounce cup and make that two ROUNDED tablespoon scoops for an eight ounce mug. This seems to work for all types of coffee makers, drip, vacuum, french press, etc. Jeff |
Hard to burn beans in a Zach and Dani roaster. The 20 min. default setting seems to produce a light-medium roast, very safe. Turning the setting down to 19 min. produces a very light roast. Amazing what happens in a minute. I think it is best to choose a setting you THINK will produce the degree of roast you want, but BE THERE the last two minutes of roasting so you can end the roast or add time. The color and the sound of the cracking, as well as smoke smell are all helpful in determining what stage you are in. Jeff PS I have four roasters: air pop, Fresh Roast Plus 8, an older Hearthware Precision, and a slightly used Zach and Dani I got on Ebay at a bargain price. I never use the pop corn popper, too much work, too unreliable. I like the Fresh Roast Plus 8, but it roasts tiny quantities and there is little time between first and second cracks to get the degree of roast I want. The older model Hearthware Precision is just great. A little loud, but you can really SEE the beans change color. It is fast, but not too fast. I set it between 4 and 5 to get anything from very light roast to almost a Full City. The Zach and Dani is also great. It takes a longer time to roast, but the color is very even. There is enough time between the cracks to really eyeball the beans and stop the roast when you want. I usually use the default 20 min setting and sometimes stop it a few seconds before it goes to the cool setting if I think the beans are dark enough. I'm seldom displeased with my roasts, although when trying to do the darker roasts I sometimes get a very dark French when I was going for a Vienna. Jeff |
--Apple-Mail-8--602930744 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset -ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed My scoops are 2 T. On Jan 6, 2006, at 10:54 PM, Turbosimba wrote: <Snip> Sandy www.sandyandina.com --Apple-Mail-8--602930744 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset O-8859-1 My scoops are 2 = T. On Jan 6, 2006, at 10:54 PM, Turbosimba = wrote: |
And as I think Peter discovered, the grinder makes a difference. 1 T/cup may be what is good from a whirly blade. At 2 T/cup the fines overextract and you get a strongly bitter brew. With a "proper" grind, you can (or have to depending on your POV) increase your ratio. There are less fines so the overall brew is simply stronger, but not more bitter. At 13:44 1/6/2006, you wrote: <Snip> John Nanci AlChemist at large Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/ |
Thank you everyone for all the responses! Some experimenting over the weekend gave me the best taste with 1.5T per 6oz, though I think the biggest impact may have come with the finer grind that I tried one time. I had read somewhere that with an auto-drip it's best to grind as fine as possible without letting it clog the paper filter, so I gave that a try. Any thoughts on this? Also, does anyone know of a website that shows different grinds so I can get a visual on what others do? My only basis for comparison thus far has been what is produced by the different settings on the store grinders. As for how I managed to burn my beans in the Z&D, I was aiming for a medium-dark roast of the Columbian Supremo beans that came with my Z&D.. an= d the higher range of roasting time listed in the manual for a medium roast was 26 minutes, and the lower range for a dark roast was 27. So I set my Z&D for 27 and left it alone. I heard the second crack end with still abou= t 9 minutes to go before the cool-down started, but had not yet learned that it was important to not let it go past the 2nd crack. Also, I was trying t= o turn my smoke detector off and open windows :) On 1/7/06, Alchemist John wrote: <Snip> |
I have found I do not like my auto drip very fine, or more to the point, I set my grind based on the drip maker I am using (Cuisinart Brew Central) and how it tastes. I lean slightly to the coarser grind, but add more coffee. I find it gives more of a rounder flavor without overextracting. At 11:28 1/9/2006, you wrote: <Snip> John Nanci AlChemist at large Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/ |
Hi I am brand spanking new to home roasting. I am waiting for my first shipment of beans to arrive and I don't even have a roaster yet. I am planning on getting a popper this weekend. I have read almost everything on Sweet Maria's website, but am still very nervous (but excited) about roasting. Any tips or advice or support would be greatly appreciated. Also how do you check for temperature using a popper? Thanks Maureen |
Hi Maureen, With a popper, you don't really control the temp. Instead you control the quantity of beans. This is almost automatic, and is very easy... If your beans aren't moving around after a minute or two, you may have too many beans -OR- you may need to tilt the popper for a minute or two (the beans are heaviest when you start, and they lighten as moisture evaporates) If your beans are moving around crazy nuts, and don't seem to get dark enough, you may have too few beans - next load use more beans... You will like what you get. You will like it even more after a couple roasts help you narrow in on the target. The target? Searching for the perfect cup of coffee... Brett Zassman On 4/8/06, Maureen Azcoitia wrote: <Snip> ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip> -- Regards, Brett Mason HomeRoast ...who wants to sell his Silvia and pursue an espresso machine upgrade..= . |
Maureen, you will love it here and we will love having you. ginny <Snip> |
Maureen, welcome to the wonderfull world of home roasting, for sure, life as you knew it will never be the same. My first popper was a WB-II unmodified with the exception of a Taylor large dial thermometer. I drilled a hole straight down thru the plastic hood. I just turned it on and gently poured the greens into the chambler untill they just barely moved and let it run on its own. Finished at about 4 min or 5, cant remember. I have since spit wired the popper to seperate the heater and the fan and still use it to sample new beans or when I run out and need some coffee right now. Of course I do nearly all my roasting with drum in a BBQ gas grill now. good luck RK From: "Maureen Azcoitia" To: Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 2:36 AM Subject: +New to roasting <Snip> |
On Fri, 2006-04-07 at 23:36 -0700, Maureen Azcoitia wrote: <Snip> Relax. Just about anything you roast is going to be better than what you can buy. So, have fun, play around, and don't be afraid to ruin a roast (I've only ruined 2 in 8 or so years of home roasting). <Snip> There are instructions on Tom's site for putting a thermometer in a popper, but it isn't necessary. I've never used one. I go by smell and by listening for the cracks. If you want to be able to exactly reproduce a roast, or if you enjoy keeping records, measuring everything and all, go for it, but, despite a lot of the chatter around here, you don't have to keep records and measure everything to get very good coffee consistantly. Be well, Lissa -- People who drink coffee have been shown to commit suicide less frequently than people who don't. Jeffery Steingarten, _It Must've Been Something I Ate_ |
On the other hand, monitoring roast temperature can tell you about why things go wrong. For example, I would not have known that the thermostat on my PII was keeping the temperature too low for proper roasting if I had not been watching the cycling temperature on the thermometer I had stuck through a hole in the butter dish. Dave S. Lissa wrote: <Snip> -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/304 - Release Date: 4/7/2006 |
On Sat, 2006-04-08 at 11:05 -0500, Maryann & Dave Schellenberg wrote: <Snip> Yes, you would have. Your roast wouldn't have reached second crack, or even first crack, and it would have smelled all wrong (which, granted, someone new might not catch). And your coffee would have tasted horrible. In a popper, only two things could have caused that - bad popper or bad beans. If you only buy from Tom, you can pretty much rule out the later. This happened to me once. I pulled the little strip of metal out of the thermostat, and still use that popper. Some people enjoy measuring temps, weighing beans, keeping records and all of that. Great, go to it. I don't enjoy it, and I roast very tasty coffee consistently using just smell and listening for the cracks. I could make the argument that I'm being all artistic and that the folks who record everything are taking the soul out of coffee, or are using records to avoid really learning the beans, but that would be wrong and inflammatory. There is not one true way to roast coffee. There may be one optimal roast for each bean, but there are a lot of ways to discover what that optimal roast is. Be well, Lissa -- We want freedom of mind, power and expression, and for that reason wish to dissociate work and study. WEA student quoted in "The Classics in the Slums" by Jonathan Rose |
Welcome aboard, Maureen! Thanks for poking me to look back at my oldest logs to remind myself how things started out, a bit less than two years ago. Rather than a dissertation, this will be kind of an outline, so ask for details about any step that interests you. Read a lot on the web Find a thrift store Poppery II Order greens from Sweet Marias Start out with 1/2 cup batches in the popper 5-6 minute roast times 'til 2nd crack onset (too quick) Cool beans by pouring between two aluminum colanders Erratic light/dark results, but almost all really tasty Get the long thermometer from Tom, insert it through top of popper Add 100 ft. extension cord to drop voltage a little Now getting 7-10 min times A little more feeling of controlling, not spectating Still erratic times/results Get a scale (bean densities vary quite a bit) Much more controllable, consistent results Experiment, settle on 80 gr. batches for my poppers Rig a device to switch between wall connection and extension cord Now I actually have some control Typical 10 min roast times Predictable light/dark roasts This process took about six months. By that time I had about four Poppery IIs and a Popcorn Pumper and saw the considerable variation between different poppers, even of the same model. Oh, I roast in the garage and just sweep up the chaff when I'm done. Since then I've gone to cooling with a 12" fan blowing up into a colander mounted on a cylindrical collar (MUCH faster), tried a Stir Crazy/Turbo Oven setup (still experimenting) and found a couple of Poppery I poppers (which are worlds better than the newer models). The Popperies are split-wired, with my old extension cord switch controlling the heater and a new dimmer/boost transformer device controlling the fan. I'm now doing 180-200 gr batches in 15 min. roast times. For me, a huge part of the fun of roasting is in tinkering with the gadgets and modifying devices beyond their original purposes. I hope some of this ramble helps you. (BTW, "Maureen Azcoitia" is a delightful combination of Irish and Basque names. May I inquire...?) Regards, Bill Morgan On 4/8/06, Maureen Azcoitia wrote: <Snip> |
Welcome, Maureen! I started roasting in a popper too. I had a lot of trouble at first because i didn't realize that you use amount of green beans to control the roast in a popper. You should want to get to first crack at around 4 or 5 minutes. If you get there too soon, you will probably have the first crack run into second crack and you will end up with an oily mess. (That happened to me a lot.) The cure: Use less beans next time. If it takes longer than 6 or 7 minutes for first crack to start, you probably want to use more beans next time. Allow me to summarize: Roast goes too fast? Fix that by using less beams. Roast goest too slow? Fix that by using more beans. Good luck! Brian On 4/8/06, Bill Morgan wrote: <Snip> |
I'd have to be a voice of dissent on this, with one provision. I air roast beans for 12 - 15 minutes, on average. True, I've done a slight mod that makes this work well. But I've never understood the resignation among some popper roasters to the "quick, brighter roast" thing. If it's possible to do longer roasts, do so! Here's the provision, though, and acknowledgment of the advice given below -- unmodded poppers that reach first crack at 8 minutes might seem like they're heading for a nice 14 minute roast, but they may be running too coo= l to make it to the desired roast level by then -- if at all! I would encourage popper users to roast as much beans as possible, to find the "sweet spot" for a roaster -- which I'd define as "as much beans as possible, as much longer than typical for poppers as possible." Other advice might be to avoid convoluted locutions like that! ;-) -- Scott On 4/8/06, Brian Kamnetz wrote: <Snip> |
I'm going to agree with Scott. Prior to mods, I found that a healthy tilt to the popper (aproximately 20°) through the whole roast - not just the beginning was the key for me. Loading the popper with greens until I had just a bit of bean movement. Adding a tin can chimney allowed the popper to handle the extra load without ejecting it out of the top. A thermometer from SM to give me a clue as to what I was actually doing. The long extension cord and then a variac followed to control heat and slow the roast to what I wanted. Of course you can follow this path all the way to PIDs and fan speed control to allow whatever profile control you're prepared to commit to (or should that be committed ;~} Mike (just plain) |
On 4/8/06, Bill Morgan wrote: <Snip> of Irish and Basque names. May I inquire...?) Not many people pick up on that. Actually, my name has almost nothing to do with my ethnicity. My first name was one that my father liked. My last named is my married name. Meanwhile, I am Puerto Rican. |
The tilt works really well with the bottom firing poppers, where the air
blows straight up. What it does is create a vertical rotation of the beans
instead of blowing a hole in one spot and having the beans sit motionless.
I was Google searching for my earliest posts and found this one in 1997,
about a year after I started posting to alt.coffee. It tells of some of my
adventures of tweaking the roasts in a Melitta Aromaroaster, including
tilting it and adding a 'soup can' chimney. There wasn't much better for
homeroasters back then, and I thought this thing was better than the hot air
poppers which I had not PID'ed or modified.
*****
Date: Fri, Oct 10 1997
"Ed Needham" wrote:
<Snip>
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"
ed at homeroaster dot com
(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
********************* |
Ed <Snip> I knew I needed to thank you for something. It's been so long - I 'plumb' forgot ;^) Mike (just plain) |
Maureen, Hello and welcome! I see that others, with more popper experience than I, have already responded to your post. You'll find that support and good advice, here on this list, is endless. Read, learn, expirament, enjoy. When homeroasting, the range to get an acceptable roast is rather wide and you will find that, while every roast may not be perfect, it's difficult to completely ruin a roast. The worst you ever roast will probably be better than Starbucks best. Welcome to the adventure! JavaJerry RK Drum roasting in Chesapeake, VA Maureen Azcoitia wrote: <Snip> |
<Snip> Maureen - As a brand new roaster person, you will have likely seen all the references to weights of coffee in grams. In case you don't have a sensitive scale laying around, a pretty good rule of thumb is that 1/8th cup measure of green beans weighs about 20 grams and after roasting the same measure weigh= s about 10 grams (the beans expand and lose moisture in roasting). A good place to start after roasting is that for each fluid ounce of coffee you intend to make, you use 1 gram of roasted coffee. Safe Journeys and Sweet Music Justin Marquez (Snyder, TX)http://www.justinandlinda.com |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Please forgive for asking this as I am sure it has been asked a million times. I just bought an espresso set up and am looking to get into roasting for personal use. I have spent the last week reading every post that I could find on what type of roaster I should get. I am really considering the rotisserie with modifications.But the only info I could find was fairly old so there were no conclusive this works great or not. Does anyone use this method? Or can you point me towards a webpage that has info? Again I am sorry if this subject has been exhausted. Smiles Becca Olson thing2http://community.webshots.com/user/stormatseaquilting Business">http://community.webshots.com/user/quiltkrayze homehttp://community.webshots.com/user/stormatseaquilting Business |
I have a hottop and really like it - but do a google search for ron kyle and you can find his site for the RKdrum set up. On 6/19/06, Becca Olson wrote: <Snip> |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. thank you! Smiles Becca Olson thing2http://community.webshots.com/user/stormatseaquilting Business">http://community.webshots.com/user/quiltkrayze homehttp://community.webshots.com/user/stormatseaquilting Business |
First, Welcome to the List! Are you talking about those electric rotisserie ovens? If yes sounds like you've already discovered reports indicate that stock they don't produce enough heat but with modifications adding additional heating they can be used. If you're talking about a gas grill with RK Drum rotisserie setup a number of people on the List are using them with excellent results. Between the two a gas grill/RK Drum would be more roast flexible/controllable and more durable. Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee Pacific Northwest Gathering IVhttp://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://home.comcast.net/~mdmint/pnwgIV.htmURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before. From: homeroast-admin [mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Becca Olson Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 10:21 AM Please forgive for asking this as I am sure it has been asked a million times. I just bought an espresso set up and am looking to get into roasting for personal use. I have spent the last week reading every post that I could find on what type of roaster I should get. I am really considering the rotisserie with modifications.But the only info I could find was fairly old so there were no conclusive this works great or not. Does anyone use this method? Or can you point me towards a webpage that has info? Again I am sorry if this subject has been exhausted. Smiles Becca Olson thing2 http://community.webshots.com/user/quiltkrayze home http://community.webshots.com/user/stormatseaquilting Business |
Becca, You could also find out if there are any homeroasters in your area and visit them when they are roasting . Doug miKe mcKoffee wrote: <Snip> |
Welcome Becca! Being a newbie myself I can't help but share in your quest for homeroasting knowledge. The SM folks here have been very useful in their experience and warm suggestions. As for online knowledge, I found these two sites to be extremely useful:http://coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/homeroasthttp://bbs.stoneworks.com/rgbbs/ In the end, I chose to go with a "home roasting appliance" (Hot top). Although I would lose the capacity and "controlability" of do-it-yourself home roasters (ie RK Drum), my main concern was "ease of use": easy to setup, easy to clean, easy to store, easy to get started. With life being so hectic for me (got married last year, moved into a "fixer upper" home in April, starting a new role at work) I was concerned that home roasting would become less and less of a priority for me. The Hot top (or any other appliance) makes the experience so easy that amidst having to juggle many of life's priorities, I can dash out to the garage and make a couple roasting batches and dash back to whatever I need to do. My home coffee roasting goal is to develop "what I like and what I don't like" over the next year. As my roasting skills slowly develop I will most definitely take on the DIY approach. I kind of equate this process to learning to drive a car. You could learn to drive an automatic to start with because its convenient: it'll get you from point A to point B just like a manual car. However over time you might yearn for more control. At that time you'll have the desire and perhaps more time on your hands to learn to drive a manual car. Cheers. Eddie Nguyen. On 6/19/06, Tara Kollas wrote: <Snip> -- Cheers. Eddie H. Nguyen |
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Becca,
There are several methods of roasting some are better than
others but most are just different and suit different life styles and
tastes. Some people are handy at modifying electrical and mechanical
devices and they seem to get along with hot air poppers and the stir
crazy-turbo oven combination quite well. Others seem to like what I
call the counter top gadgets. I learned more from roasting over wood
and gas fires in a wok than from all the other roasting methods I
have tried put together. And, it is still one of my preferred
methods of roasting. I believe Ron Kyle's drums in a gas fired back
yard BBQ is probably the roasting method most compatible with
suburban life style and it is relatively inexpensive if you already
have the grill. It will last forever.
Jim Gundlach
On Jun 19, 2006, at 12:20 PM, Becca Olson wrote:
<Snip>
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Becca, There are =
several methods of roasting some are better than others but most are =
just different and suit different life styles and tastes. Some people =
are handy at modifying electrical and mechanical devices and they seem =
to get along with hot air poppers and the stir crazy-turbo oven =
combination quite well. Others seem to like what I call the counter =
top gadgets. I learned more from roasting over wood and gas fires in =
a wok than from all the other roasting methods I have tried put =
together. And, it is still one of my preferred methods of roasting. =
I believe Ron Kyle's drums in a gas fired back yard BBQ is probably the =
roasting method most compatible with suburban life style and it is =
relatively inexpensive if you already have the grill. It will last =
forever. Jim Gundlach
On Jun 19, 2006, =
at 12:20 PM, Becca Olson wrote: |
I found one that I will be checking out. But they arent using anything modified or home built. Smile.My hubby doesnt understand why a counter top unit isnt as exciting to me.He is into the ease of that.I guess I have always been more difficult.Grin. I will keep my ears open though as I would love to see some up close.The barbcue ones really do interest me but I dont want to take the plunge until I have an idea of what I am doing. I really appreciate all the help I have been given.So many more websites to check out. Smiles Becca Olson thing2http://community.webshots.com/user/stormatseaquilting Business">http://community.webshots.com/user/quiltkrayze homehttp://community.webshots.com/user/stormatseaquilting Business |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. If you are looking for an appliance the Hottop, in my opinion, is the = best way to go.Most of us started cheap with pop corn poppers and on to = more and more expensive roasters as the bug bit us. Upgrade fever is a = natural part of home roasting. If you can afford it and don't want to: 1. Fire up your gas grill year round 2. Wind up with a closet filled with equipment you have outgrown. 3. It is within your budget. Buy a Hottop. |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Becca, I may have missed it, but I don't think anyone yet has suggested you = start with a heat gun and dog bowl. In some ways, I think this is an = ideal way to get started because the costs are so low (my kit cost me = about $35 including a storage box) and you can see, smell, and hear = every step of the process, so you really learn about roasting. The only = down sides are smoke and mess (chaff flies everywhere, but I roast = outside so it doesn't matter), weather if you live somewhere where you = can't roast outside much of the year, and effort since you have to sit = there stirring and holding the heat gun for the 10-15 minutes it takes = to do a batch. Once you learn to roast with the HGDB, you can always move on and up to = HotTops and other roasting appliances. I rarely use my HGDB now because = I have a HotTop, but the roasting experience and knowledge I gained = while I used that setup really helped me become a better roaster. Zara |
Becca Olson wrote: <Snip> Becca, The RK Drum roasting is very forgiving and I would recommend that this would be an easy way to start roasting. I switched over to the RK Drum after 5 years with PID popcorn roaster and was impressed with the ease and the excellent roast flavors. The drum roasting allows me use most Kenya coffees as single origin espresso shots. Doug <Snip> |
Hi Becca, I'm also a new roaster, just started a little over a month ago and have been lurking on the list. I'm starting with a Fresh Roast Plus, but picked up a $2 thrift store popper that I may modify slightly. I also want to tinker around with things and will probably upgrade to a SC/CO. My husband wants to help me with the modifications, but I really would rather do it myself. However, I will say, I'm glad I'm starting with something small. I like the idea with the FR that I can hear the cracks and I'm learning about the roasting process on a small scale. If I ruin a roast, I've only lost 65 gms of green beans. Plus, since I'm so new to levels of roast, out of 1 pound I can vary the different batches 7 times and learn about different regional coffees on a smaller scale. I'm buying 1-3 lbs of each bean to see if I like them. I thought I knew what I liked before I started roasting, but I've been really surprised, due to the variety that is available green. Now that I am getting more comfortable, I will not be scared to upgrade to a larger capacity machine and feel like I'll ruin a roast. I definitely want something bigger, but I think I will continue to use my FR as a sample roaster, and even do day to day roasts in it. Then again, I only drink 1 largish cup of coffee a day, and my husband only drinks 1-2 cups a week, so the limited batch size is fine for us. I really want a larger set up to roast for friends and family, which I really can not do with the fresh roast. Just another opinion! :) Patty --- Becca Olson wrote: <Snip> Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com |
On 6/19/06, Zara Haimo wrote: <Snip> Yes, this is a great way to go if you can roast outside and don't drink a lot of coffee. You don't *need* to use a dog bowl, a stainless steel mixing bowl will work just as well. I do get a little bit of a buzz from the caffeine while roasting, however. Like right now... :) Karl |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. My hubby is really going to think I am nuts but this is a method I will be trying. I think it will be a good learning experience. I wont be able to do it in the winter however as I dont enjoy going outside in zero weather. It supposed to be summer right now though (we have yet to see 70 outside) so as soon as my green beans get here i will try it. Smiles Becca Olson thing2http://community.webshots.com/user/stormatseaquilting Business">http://community.webshots.com/user/quiltkrayze homehttp://community.webshots.com/user/stormatseaquilting Business |
Hi Becca,
I'm new too, and I live in Central Alberta, so outdoor roasting isn't
possible for me about six months a year. My choice was an iRoast-2,
mainly because of the easy venting.
I'm having a good time with it.
Vicki
Becca Olson wrote:
<Snip>
!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!**!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*
Taming Coffee: The Weblog
http://taming.motime.com |
Becca, Check out my RK Drum pages at http://www.terrystockdale.com/rkdrum. They are about my experiences, setup and mods -- love the RK Drum! Terry -- Terry Stockdale -- Baton Rouge, LA My Coffee Pages:http://www.terrystockdale.com/hottopMy RK Drum pages: http://www.terrystockdale.com/rkdrumTerry's Computer Tips: http://www.terryscomputertips.comAt 04:21 PM 6/19/2006, you wrote:">http://www.terrystockdale.com/coffeeMy Hottop pages:http://www.terrystockdale.com/hottopMy RK Drum pages: http://www.terrystockdale.com/rkdrumTerry's Computer Tips: http://www.terryscomputertips.comAt 04:21 PM 6/19/2006, you wrote: <Snip> |
Hi Becca, You asked about shipping costs. I have SM ship to me USPS insured, and usually buy 10 lbs of beans at a time. Shipping works out to about $2/pound. I have no idea how the postal rates to Alberta compare to rates to Alaska. I can (and do) buy greens closer to home, about a two hour drive from here. I drive up rather than pay the $1.70 or so a pound for shipping that short distance. We go through about 5 pounds of greens a month, for our own use. Fortunately, the extra $10 month or so in shipping is OK for us at the moment. Vicki |
Wow thats not bad at all. Thats also great you have someone somewhat local to buy from. I may run into someone at some point but havent yet. Shipping from SM was definitely the best of the bunch but still high. For a 10 pound bag the shipping was almost 2$ a pound. Anyways thanks for the help. I am overwhelmed at how helpful everyone has been. Smiles Becca Olson thing2http://community.webshots.com/user/stormatseaquilting Business">http://community.webshots.com/user/quiltkrayze homehttp://community.webshots.com/user/stormatseaquilting Business |
Becca, well, that is the same amount we pay for shipping to Alberta, then. Our sorta local guy charges more than SM does for comparable beans, so SM costs us about the same, if we drive the two hours rather than have him ship it to us. If he ships to us, SM is waaaay less money. We do have a local roaster, who will sell beans, but they are just so-so, and he charges $9 a pound or so for them. Frankly, even if SM was a bit more, buying from someone that understands home roasters, is so committed to getting the best for us, and helping us every inch of the way is worth paying for. vicki Becca Olson wrote: <Snip> |
I agree. Even with shipping costs, SM beans are probably the best deal available; considering that you are getting best of the beans after extensive cupping. As many people have indicated, you can close you eyes and order any beans from SM and you cannot go wrong. When I began roating six month ago, I went to a local Whole foods (North Dallas area) because their web site claimed that they sell green beans. But to my surprise they said that they are selling the green beans at the same price as the roasted ones. That is such nonsense. I used to buy roasted beans from this location occassionally, because they have a roaster on location. But the quality was very inconsistent. Since I am new to roasting, I can offer my limited experience which may be useful to you. I decided to start with a stovetop popcorn maker. Only the first batch was bit overroasted, as I have a ceramic cooktop and no thermometer. Then I purchased the cheapest thermometer from SM which gives you a ballpark idea of temperature range. SInce then, most of my roast have been fairly good, at least better than any coffee I have every had. I have also stopped adding sugar/cream. One problem with electric cooktop is that temperature reduction is not instantaneous, so temperature control is bit tricky. Now I have just purchased a Fresh Roast plus. Since I consume only one cup (two on weekends/holidays), it thought that it would be ideal. So far, I have roasted 4-5 batches, and I really like the ease of use and control. If I need to roast a larger amount, I can always use whirly pop. Also, if a batch is messed up, only a small amount is wasted. Although, with Tom's instructions, it is really hard to mess up a roast. -Saumit Vicki Smith wrote: Becca, well, that is the same amount we pay for shipping to Alberta, then. Our sorta local guy charges more than SM does for comparable beans, so SM costs us about the same, if we drive the two hours rather than have him ship it to us. If he ships to us, SM is waaaay less money. We do have a local roaster, who will sell beans, but they are just so-so, and he charges $9 a pound or so for them. Frankly, even if SM was a bit more, buying from someone that understands home roasters, is so committed to getting the best for us, and helping us every inch of the way is worth paying for. vicki Becca Olson wrote: <Snip>--------------------------------- Ring'em or ping'em. Make PC-to-phone calls as low as 1¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. |
Becca, I'll put in another plug for the RK, but with a different perspective. I've been really happy with mine, but unless you've got a good local mentor, I wouldn't recommend starting out with it. As others have recommended, the heat gun / dog bowl method has very low initial cost, and most important, the whole process is right there under your eyes, ears and nose. The RK offers great (though entirely manual) roast control, but if you don't already know the roast sequence it's kind of intimidating not to be able to see the beans. Once you're comfortable with the roast process and learn how to tweak that process to get coffee you really like, the RK offers great value and capacity if you need it. Using a FreshRoast taught me a lot about roasting, including that 2.5 oz (1 batch) of coffee doesn't go very far. Since getting the RK, I haven't used it once. Bruce |