I can't help reviving this thread... For four years my little $tarbies Buon 330 espresso machine has poured probably 10 shots a day and other than the typical limitations of a thermal block machine it has done a wonderful job... Well, now, some 12000+ shots later it's getting a little tired. (Damn good investment though!) I've spent at least a year researching new machines and had limited my selection down to the Pasquini Livia 90 (the likely candidate) and the even more expensive La Cimbali junior. I found a distributor that carried both and scooped out a handful of beans from my stash and headed down to try them out. First he was out of the Livia 90... Not a big surprise as it is his low end machine ... Oh well ... Just what I needed an excuse to spend more money. (I did know that before I headed down.) The salesman ground the coffee that I brought and we first tried a shot from M31 Dosatron dual group machine that had been on, while we waited for the junior to warm up. It was truly wonderful! No sugar and just as sweet and caramely as you could imagine. Now the junior was warm... and a shot was pulled. Although it was good there was a very distinct sour note to the coffee. I suggested that he try it and the salesman declined. So back to the Dosatron then back to junior same results. "Well maybe the water in the tank is old." So out goes the old water and it gets refilled. Again Dosatron wonderful and junior a bit sour. At that point the salesman suggested that we try an M31 Bistro single group which is a step up from the junior. OK let's try... Well it wasn't the worst coffee that I ever drank but it was terribly sour. Again the salesman won't pull himself a shot. There are probably 12 or 14 half full cups on the counter and my coffee had run out. This then went on with Lavazza for another 30 minutes or so without a lot of change. Of course his tech wasn't in so he wouldn't adjust the boiler. I was suspicious that the water temp was low. The shots on junior poured quickly also but the salesman was unwilling to adjust the grind and simply attempted to tamp it harder. I could continue but I think ya'll get the idea. First it amazed me that the salesman didn't appear to be a coffee drinker. Here he is making his living in selling top of the line machines and begged off on tasting it even when his demo went south. He openly admitted that the demo machines were essentially uncrated and rolled out with little to no setup by the techs. He claims to have personally sold 'several' Bistros based on demos that he has done on the machine that was really sour. So go figure... A restaurant owner comes in, demos this machine and buys one even though it's terribly sour. I don't want to sound like a snob but my observations from this experience were enlightening. We have machines being sold by a salesman that doesn't appear to like coffee. They are apparently being bought by people that don't know what good coffee should taste like. Is it any wonder that the waiter or waitress (typically there is no barista in restaurants around here that serve espresso) doesn't have a clue? Now for good part of this... The owner of the store is (He is also supposed to be thier best Tech on Cimbalis) going to bring a junior to my place tomorrow. He will dial it in with my grinder and coffee. If it produces good coffee it will stay, otherwise he'll pack it up and take it back with him. That did impress me. We'll have to see how it goes. BTW - The owner's father- in-law is their roastmaster as they also produce their own coffee. I got a chance to talk to him. He was very knowledgable about coffee and roasting but couldn't help with the machines. ciao jeff homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
Hi, Jeff. Thought I'd weigh in a little here, as I've had the opportunity to play a lot with Cimbalis lately. Cimbali #1: two group M30 Bistro automatic at the Cedarburg Roastery. Cimbali #2: single group M30 semi-auto going on an espresso cart for the Roastery. Cimbali #3: Old Junior - the automatic plumbed version. The two group machine is on 24/7 at the Roastery and is cleaned nightly. It seems to run pretty hot, even though the pressure gauge isn't up past midway. Shots are definitely not sour. If it's been idle for a while, the gruppas need to be purged a few oz. otherwise the shot gets a bit too hot. The single group machine is not in service yet, Chris and I are putting the outter panels back on after getting them powder coated. We had the machine running in my kitchen a few weekends ago, hooked to my electric range outlet. It's a big single group, 24" wide with a BIG Procon pump. The microswitch on the pressurestat was sticking a bit, but we were able to get it fully warmed up and withing proper temp. It pulled WONDERFUL shots, and hooooo baby, did that thing steam. However, back to back shots with my PID temp controlled Silvia gave similar shots. It was a horse race, and the only thing the Silvia gave up was steam power and convenience of steam/brew at the same time. The Junior is currently undergoing a rebuild. It's a rat. Old, dirty, and needs work, but there are definitely possibilities. To be perfectly honest, I wouln't pay what they ask for a Junior. I would expect a procon pump at that price, not a cheezy vib. pump and with the plumbed version, there is room in there for one. The boiler is OK size, and the machine is put together well, but I don't see why it's over 2x the cost of a Livia. Electrically, it has the dosing arrangement, so there is some computer hardware in there, but if I was going to blow that sort of coin, I'd go for a 2 group M28 Compact semi-auto. Anyway, my real point here is that temperature has a big impact on the taste. A few degrees either way will make a shot taste burnt or sour. A commercial machine will take at least 30 minutes to get everything hot, and possibly even longer than that. My Silvia isn't really hot for at least 30 minutes - gotta get that commercial chunk of a portafilter hot. I believe that you should be able to get good shots out of any of the Cimbali machines once it's warmed up all the way and dialed in properly. Chris homeroast wrote: <Snip> Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today athttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast">http://webmail.netscape.com/homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
Jeff, you wouldn't be trying a certain distributor in the north part of Houston. I can tell you that the Pasquini is an excellent machine and am very happy with mine. Rob |