Has anyone used those Food Saver vacuum packers to store their roasted beans? During the resting process, are we just allowing CO2 to come out or is there some other reason. If it's just CO2 then the vacuum machine would suck a whole bunch out. Any more produced would be trapped in the bag - is that bad? It's not O2 which I presume is the enemy of roasted beans - so that might be good? Regards Geoff homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
You will probably get so much CO2 outgassed that a sealed bag will 'bust at the seams'. You really need a bag with a one-way release valve like the ones Tom sells. That will keep the CO2 in and the O out while letting out excess pressure. Jim |
On Thu, 7 Jun 2001 13:27:22 -0700, Geoff Hayman wrote: <Snip> Oxygen IS the enemy! I just recently started using a Food Saver to vacuum pack my beans after roasting. I use a custom sized bag made from a roll -- you cut it to length, seal one end, put the beans in and vacuum and seal. The vacuum seems to be pretty complete and the bag of beans becomes fairly brick-like -- it's not shaped like a brick but you could probably hurt someone if you hit them over the head with it. I make the bags just a bit longer than I expect the volume of beans to require and every morning I cut just the sealed end off, remove beans for coffee and re-vacuum and -seal the bag, which has just enough space left from the beans removed to allow this. I've also ordered and am awaiting attachments that will allow me to vacuum seal the beans in mason jars -- wide mouth and regular -- so that I don't have to use so much plastic. The CO2 does NOT seem to build up enough pressure to split the bags and they seem to go from 'brick' to loose in about 12 hours and after 24-48 hours the bags are nicely puffed but nowhere near bursting. After opening and resealing at ~24 hours post roast the bags loosen up over the next 24 hours. But, from day 2 on they stay close to 'brick' form after resealing each day. My wife has suggested that I divide the roasted beans up into premeasured amounts and individually seal them so that they don't get exposed to oxygen until used. This seems a little bit obsessive so, naturally, I'm going to try it this weekend. John Blumel homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
Geoff-- I own a Food Saver, and, I can relate to your train of thought. But, I would not recommend using a Food Saver for the following reasons: (1) As JimM's email states, CO2(g) evolution of freshly roasted beans. Freshly roasted emphasized here, because, well, if you have beans that are no longer releasing CO2(g) and other aromatic compounds--stale beans--no problem. Mass marketers sell vacuum packed "bricks" of whole bean coffee. (2) Adsorption of odor of plastic (vinyl/polyethylene/etc.) packing material by coffee beans. It's been my experience that coffee adsorbs every odor, particularly those near/around its storage area. The vinyl material of the bag used with the Food Saver will most certainly be adsorbed by the coffee. (3) Cost of Food Saver bag material. A roll of the bag material is expensive. If you plan to open/reseal a particular package daily, you first have to cut the original seal, then leave enough room to reseal the bag after each use. As far as why beans are allowed to "rest" after roasting...I am not sure, but it seems reasonable that it allows certain chemical reactions to go to completion. What those reactions are, I do not know, but I suspect they are related to the coffee oil development or migration or some side reactions that impart body to a coffee. Based on experience, I know that when Tom's cupping review advise to allow a particular bean to rest after roasting, the coffee seems to always be richer, fuller bodied than if I brew a few hours after roasting. I've also noticed that for some coffees, such as the Harrar on Tom's offerings list last year, the floral and fruity aromas seemed at their peak after 2 days of resting. (roasting done on HWG; city roast). But, that doesn't explain the body theory very well...? I think Tom&Maria would have a better answer to this question. Bottom line, I wouldn't recommend the FoodSaver route for freshly roasted coffee. It's great for preparing single-serving meals for the freezer, but, for roasted coffee, not so great. Hope this helps, and saves you from investing alot of $ . --Mary |
I've been using our Food Saver to vacumn seal roasted beans for years. Not in plastic bags however. I use pint canning jars and dome lids. You can get (or may already have) the adapter which allows you to seal canning jar dome lids. There are two different adapters, one for Wide mouth and one for Standard mouth jars and domes. After initial roast the beans go directly in the jar with a dome lid and ring, not vacumn sealed. After two or three days I vacumn seal. A couple of days later I reseal if necessary. Yes, sometimes CO2 continues to release which pops up the dome (especially darker roasts) and I then just reseal the jar. This very effectively keeps the damaging oxygen away from my precious beans! The dome lids are reusable dozens and dozens and dozens of times... I store the jars of roasted beans in a cool dark cupboard. The coffee beans do not pickup any flavor from the glass jars. Pop the seal and you hear and smell the freshness, pour out enough to grind in the Solis & reseal. That's how I keep 16 to 20 varieties roasted at all times! MM;-) |
<Snip> I relate to "coffee obsssive". I've been making premeasured bags of ground for my wife to take to work for quite some time! I grind enough for her 4 cupper and straight to the bag and vacumn seal. I make a dozen or so at a time, each a different variety of course! Keep them in the freezer until use. Yeah, it's a bit of a chore to make the custom little bags but what the heck. Those into coffee at her work are always stopping to steal a cup of coffee! I also take fresh ground then sealed coffee for my monthly staff meeting at work. (Normally I'm in the field.) People rave... I also seal up whole beans "by to pot" (if I know they have a grinder) to send to good friends out of town... Other wise I grind it first. This also works great for travel when I don't feel like taking a grinder. MM;-) homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
Thank you to those who offered me some comments.... I guess in the spirit of The Homeroasters, I should stop asking questions and start experimenting :) I'm quite interested in medium/long term storage for going on trips etc and being away from half way decent roasted coffee. Geoff homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
I'm interested in vacuum storage of roasted beans in mason jars. What kind of machine is required? Will any of the home vacuum sealers work, or does it require an accessary of some kind? I've seen a wide range of prices and cann't see spending more than necessary. TIA Bart remove (nospam) from address before responding homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
Amazon carries the VacuVin line - incuding the coffee storage containerhttp://www.vacuvin.nl/vacuvin.htmlBob Trancho">http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/browse/-/694706/103-8569441-6578247You can read more about the VacuVin line at their Web site:http://www.vacuvin.nl/vacuvin.htmlBob Trancho <Snip> homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
Bart Frazee wrote: <Snip> The FoodSaver machines work pretty well for creating a vacuum in a mason jar, although, you need to buy a special accessory for either standard- or wide-mouthed jars. However, whether this will improve or preserve the flavor of your roasted beans is definitely a controversial topic. I used to keep my roasted beans in either vacuumed mason jars or FoodSaver bags but no longer do unless I'm freezing the beans for long term (a week or two) storage while I'm out of town. Initially, I thought that the vacuum helped to preserve the taste of the room temperature beans but have changed my mind. My brother, a chemist, suggested that the vacuum might pull the aromatic compounds off the beans faster than otherwise so I did some unscientific testing that convinced me that there was either no difference, so it wasn't worth the trouble, or that the vacuum sealed beans were not quite as good after a few days. For long-term storage vacuuming and freezing does seem to help preserve the freshness. Probably the aromatics don't come off as quickly in the freezer but I think a large part of it may be that vacuum sealing the coffee draws most of the moisture out of the jar along with the air so that it doesn't condense on the beans. For this same reason, I usually let them come up to room temperature before opening the jar -- unless I'm desperate. John Blumel homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
I know that roasted beans lose their freshness after about 5 - 7 days. Does anyone have a feel for how long they will stay fresh if they are vacuum sealed in a jar or canister? I don't usually get any roasted beans to last more than 4 or 5 days, but I just received my new iRoast today and I suspect that enthusiasm will overcome common sense and I'll end up with more roasted coffee on hand than I can drink in a 7 day window. After a resting/venting period I always store in a vacuum canister anyway. Your thoughts and comments will be appreciated. Jerry |
Vac packing per se has little value imo, however vacpacking right after roasting and then freezing stat will result in quite acceptable freshness out to 30 days plus ime. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 6/3/2004 at 5:11 AM Jerry Procopio wrote: <Snip> snip ----- "Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes." (author unknown) |
I have good luck with Vacuum storage. I usually let the beans degass and then vac them if they will be sitting around a bit. Also have had good luck with Tom's bags. Dave Echelbarger |
In a message dated 6/3/2004 6:48:39 AM Central Standard Time, tnjsimpson1 writes: roasting and then freezing stat will result in quite acceptable freshness out to 30 days plus ime. I have done that right after roasting and am quite satisfied with the quality. I just use small mason jars but the thing that amazes me is the pressure that builds up, I assume due to out gassing, is really significant, much more that if I stored it at room temperature. The first time I did this I just twisted open the lid and the pop was so great that some beans actually "exploded" out. Now I slowly twist if off. I wonder why this occurs? Steve Cat |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Dave when you say vacuum, do you mean the hand vac that makes a line on = the bags, or the foot pedal kind? I heard that the foot is more = durable, but if you have the other kind then I would get one if you are = experiencing no problems. The foot one price is in the $300. range, = whereas the hand type is less than $100. I believe. Thanks. Leslee Berringer |
Leslee, I simply use the canisters you can buy with the Food Saver System. I have also vaccumed and frozen beans immediately after roasting with good effect, although don't do this much. Tom's bags work well too. Of course now that I'm home roasting I don't employ it as much. Many people have many different takes on this subject. Dave Echelbarger In a message dated 6/3/2004 10:08:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, lesllee writes: Dave when you say vacuum, do you mean the hand vac that makes a line on the bags, or the foot pedal kind? I heard that the foot is more durable, but if you have the other kind then I would get one if you are experiencing no problems. The foot one price is in the $300. range, whereas the hand type is less than $100. I believe. Thanks. Leslee |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I hear conflicting theories about grinding beans directly after removing = them from the freezer. Some say this is fine and other say it could = hurt your blades. Any comments? I have a MM and would wish to take = extra precaution to avoid harming this grinder. Thanks, Leslee Berringer |
The frozen roasted beans have almost no ice in them. And if there was, =
I doubt that the ice would be harder than beans. So, I don't see any =
mechanical reason for damage. On the other hand, if you put a lot of
frozen beans in the hopper they might condense moisture from the air
and result in water dripping down to rust the burrs.
Jim Gundlach
On Jun 3, 2004, at 3:40 PM, leslee berringer wrote:
<Snip>
other say
<Snip>
wish
<Snip>
after
<Snip>
are
<Snip>
<Snip>
The frozen roasted beans have almost no ice in them. And if there
was, I doubt that the ice would be harder than beans. So, I don't
see any mechanical reason for damage. On the other hand, if you put a
lot of frozen beans in the hopper they might condense moisture from
the air and result in water dripping down to rust the burrs.
Jim Gundlach
On Jun 3, 2004, at 3:40 PM, leslee berringer wrote:
VerdanaI hear
conflicting theories about grinding beans directly after removing
them from the freezer. Some say this is fine and other say it =
could
hurt your blades. Any comments? I have a MM and would wish to take
extra precaution to avoid harming this =
grinder.
Verdana =
=
VerdanaThanks,
=
Verdana
VerdanaLeslee =
Berringer
Arial |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. a) It will not hurt your blades. You paid a lot of money to get extra strong blades, but frozen coffee won't even hurt wimpy blades. b) There are issues with removing beans from the freezer and immediately unsealing them, though. Condensation will form on the cold beans, and depending on the level of humidity in your area, could cause you to be afflicted with "soggy bean syndrome." Far better is when you notice that you're running low on thawed beans, take a package of frozen, sealed beans out of the freezer and let them come to room temperature - it certainly won't take two hours, probably far less. Then, after the beans are at room temperature, unseal them and add them to your hopper. * Rick From: leslee berringer I hear conflicting theories about grinding beans directly after removing them from the freezer. Some say this is fine and other say it could hurt your blades. Any comments? I have a MM and would wish to take extra precaution to avoid harming this grinder. |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Thanks Rick. Coming from one of my favorite resident geniuses I will = accept this information without question. Leslee |
Dave, I'm using Food Saver canisters also. What's the longest you have had beans vacuum sealed without freezing tehm and without them becoming stale? Jerry DEchelbarg wrote: <Snip> |
In a message dated 6/3/2004 10:17:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, CafeHombre writes: Dave, I'm using Food Saver canisters also. What's the longest you have had beans vacuum sealed without freezing them and without them becoming stale? Jerry Hi Jerry, Well, now that I am roasting, I have quick turn over -- that's the goal anyway. But in the old days I ordered beans from Peets and stored them in the vac containers. I think they did well for a month or more, they still fizzed nicely when I poured hot water over the grounds in my manual maker. Right now I let the beans degas in the valve bags and then move to the canisters, but nothing lasts much more than 10 days, if that. Dave Echelbarger |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Boy I got a chuckle out of that one, but you know, Leslee, you can go to hell for lying, just as you can for stealing. :-) * Rick From: leslee berringer Thanks Rick. Coming from one of my favorite resident geniuses I will accept this information without question. |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Well Rick, if I were lying I would be worried! Leslee |
Thanks everyone for your ideas. Hopefully I can drink up at least as fast as I roast and storage time won't be an issue. I may be pinging off the walls like a moth against a lighted window since over caffination (if that's a word) tends to send my body into an uncontrollable second crack - but what a way to go! Jerry DEchelbarg wrote: <Snip> |
I've only been roasting since Nov. I use hot air corn poppers so I don't roast many beans at a time. But I love my Tilia food saver. I roast my beans, let them degas for approx. 24 hours. I then seal them in my food saver. I love my food saver, so feel confident they will last a long time. But, I've only left them in the food saver for arrox. a month.....they are still fresh........................ |