Hi, everyone - I currently own a Gaggia espresso, which has so far been a pretty fantastic learning machine. I sent my portafilter out to be de-crotched (probably not a real term, but it's midnight here, so forgive the terminology). I have a back-up pf but discovered my baskets don't match the spare, so I had espresso grounds blown all over the counter, big mess, wasted Panama, etc. - so I'm looking at a few days without espresso. I had my first double shot at home about a month ago. Since I survived 34 years without espresso at home, how is it that I'm now really distressed at not having any espresso for the next week or so? It's not like I don't have a plethora of alternatives (drip pot, french press, local coffee shop)... At any rate - I know I'm going to want to upgrade at some point. I have the cash to get a Silvia. But should I wait until I can get the Andreja? I've been researching this and I just can't decide. Since I've only had the Gaggia (which I've named Hal because of the reference to 2001 on SM) a month and I already want to upgrade, should I assume that I'll want to do that with Silvia very soon? I drink my coffee straight, however it's brewed, but I'm the minority in my family. Is it worth it to get a double boiler machine? Should I wait until the Andreja with PID comes out? Any input would be greatly appreciated. Tara Hi, everyone - I currently own a Gaggia espresso, which has so far been a pretty fantastic learning machine. I sent my portafilter out to be de-crotched (probably not a real term, but it's midnight here, so forgive the terminology). I have a back-up pf but discovered my baskets don't match the spare, so I had espresso grounds blown all over the counter, big mess, wasted Panama, etc. - so I'm looking at a few days without espresso. I had my first double shot at home about a month ago. Since I survived 34 years without espresso at home, how is it that I'm now really distressed at not having any espresso for the next week or so? It's not like I don't have a plethora of alternatives (drip pot, french press, local coffee shop)... At any rate - I know I'm going to want to upgrade at some point. I have the cash to get a Silvia. But should I wait until I can get the Andreja? I've been researching this and I just can't decide. Since I've only had the Gaggia (which I've named Hal because of the reference to 2001 on SM) a month and I already want to upgrade, should I assume that I'll want to do that with Silvia very soon? I drink my coffee straight, however it's brewed, but I'm the minority in my family. Is it worth it to get a double boiler machine? Should I wait until the Andreja with PID comes out? Any input would be greatly appreciated. Tara |
Tara, You will get upgrade fever again very soon if you get a Miss Silvia. Dr. Crema prescribes waiting so you don't get a fever. Les On 5/27/05, akkmom wrote: <Snip> <Snip> <Snip> ch <Snip> , <Snip> d <Snip> <Snip> <Snip> <Snip> <Snip> <Snip> he <Snip> nth <Snip> <Snip> ut <Snip> |
Les, I agree and I disagree. Shot wise a stock Silvia probably wouldn't be much of an upgrade from a Gaggia. (Except for better construction with Silvia IMO.) Having a 3-way valve the main "functional" difference. However, since Tara is into straight shots only and not steaming milk a PID & auto-fill mod'd Silvia could be good upgrade ($200 total for both mods). Kona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee 3rd Annual Pacific Northwest Sweet Maria's Home Roasters Gathering infohttp://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmFrom: "Les" ">http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/pnwgIII.htmURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmFrom: "Les" Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 9:27 PM Tara, You will get upgrade fever again very soon if you get a Miss Silvia. Dr. Crema prescribes waiting so you don't get a fever. Les On 5/27/05, akkmom wrote: <Snip> |
You are correct Mike. However once you do those modifications you could get= a number of nice single boiler machines with a true E-61 grouphead such as= the Isomac Amica. That said, good espresso isn't made by the machine, but= the person behind it. Once you get into the Silvia and above you have enoug= h power and stability to make consistent good espresso. Les "Espresso is a drink not a roast." On 5/28/05, miKe mcKoffee wrote: <Snip> e <Snip> <Snip> <Snip> <Snip> <Snip> ? <Snip> t <Snip> |
Les, excellent point. In fact an Amica might be cheaper than PID'd Silvia, if you can find an Amica in stock. Checked to four usual non-SM espresso machine sources and only one carries it and out of stock... Kona Kurmudgeon miKe mcKoffee 3rd Annual Pacific Northwest Sweet Maria's Home Roasters Gathering infohttp://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmFrom: "Les" ">http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/pnwgIII.htmURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmFrom: "Les" Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 7:03 AM You are correct Mike. However once you do those modifications you could get a number of nice single boiler machines with a true E-61 grouphead such as the Isomac Amica. That said, good espresso isn't made by the machine, but the person behind it. Once you get into the Silvia and above you have enough power and stability to make consistent good espresso. Les "Espresso is a drink not a roast." On 5/28/05, miKe mcKoffee wrote: <Snip> |
Mike, My real point is that it is the person behind the machine that is the most= important element. What we pay for is convenience. Convenience is no subsititute for developing barista skill and awareness. If you don't want t= o develop those skills, I would say just buy a SMk5 and enjoy your coffee. I= would take an espresso pulled by you on your stock Miss Silvia over most baristas using the same bean and grind on their $5,000-$10,000 ultra powerful and stable machine because most don't have a clue of what is going= on and don't really care. Chris I know there are exceptions. However, the= love affair with the machine is over sold. Am I saying you shouldn't do you= r modifications? No way, I think you will really enjoy the auto-fill and the= stability of the PID, However, what you are getting is more convenience because you have devleoped the barista skills and awareness. There is no machine that can overcome poor skills. Les On 5/28/05, miKe mcKoffee wrote: <Snip> , <Snip> <Snip> s <Snip> <Snip> . <Snip> |
On May 28, 2005, at 12:10 am, akkmom wrote: <Snip> Based only on what I've read from owners of (various) Gaggia's and Sylvia's over several years (I haven't used these machines) I don't think the Sylvia is worth the price of upgrading from the Gaggia. In your position, I would either wait until I could afford something with an E61 grouphead or stick with the Gaggia. John Blumel |
This is anecdotal, but I find the upgrade from my Starbucks Barista to my= Silvia is worth every penny. The system is so much more dependable, and predictable. This means I can develop my skillset and improve my results. I would recommend AKK serviously consider the upgrade... Brett On 5/28/05, John Blumel wrote: <Snip> -- Regards, Brett Mason HomeRoast __]_ _(( )_ Please don't spill the coffee! |
<Snip> One thing you need to consider, before and Andreja or any other E-61 group head espresso machine. Do you steam a lot of milk or do you mainly drink espresso. IMO if your choice is espresso then I would not spend the extra money on a Andreja. The best asset of the Andreja is the ability to keep up with the demand of shot after shot, and milk based espresso drinks. I have one, and find it to be and excellent espresso machine, but I only drink espresso and Americanos, so the steam power is not and assets for me. I believe I should have bought a single boiler machine, maybe a Silvia with a PID to get rid of the temp surfing problem of single boiler machines. Just my thoughts, and I may be off base but at this point in time it is the way I feel. Take your time and really think about what your needs are, and do a lot of research before you buy, this will save you money and the need to keep upgrading. RK |
Tara, I owned an Isomac "Tea" for over a year and it was a nice machine, I pulled some great shots and honed my "skills". I upgraded to a LaSpaziale S1 and it is much more consistent and repeatable, nearly all shots are very very good; (somehow pulled good shots, the very first day of install). The "S1" features a rotary pump, electronic temp control (excellent for "homeroasted"), good diagnostics. Am truly amazed, after 3 months, how consistent and excellent the shots are (several levels better than the HX "Tea" was; Andreja has "similiar" internals to "Tea" (Andreja is hopefully better built!) Seehttp://www.rimpo.org/s1/for reviews and a forum for the S1. Good Luck in your quest! jeffb "Hi, everyone - I currently own a Gaggia espresso, which has so far been a pretty fantastic learning machine. I sent my portafilter out to be de-crotched (probably not a real term, but it's midnight here, so forgive the terminology). I have a back-up pf but discovered my baskets don't match the spare, so I had espresso grounds blown all over the counter, big mess, wasted Panama, etc. - so I'm looking at a few days without espresso. I had my first double shot at home about a month ago. Since I survived 34 years without espresso at home, how is it that I'm now really distressed at not having any espresso for the next week or so? It's not like I don't have a plethora of alternatives (drip pot, french press, local coffee shop)... At any rate - I know I'm going to want to upgrade at some point. I have the cash to get a Silvia. But should I wait until I can get the Andreja? I've been researching this and I just can't decide. Since I've only had the Gaggia (which I've named Hal because of the reference to 2001 on SM) a month and I already want to upgrade, should I assume that I'll want to do that with Silvia very soon? I drink my coffee straight, however it's brewed, but I'm the minority in my family. Is it worth it to get a double boiler machine? Should I wait until the Andreja with PID comes out? Any input would be greatly appreciated. Tara -- Jeff jeff.braman |
R.N.Kyle wrote: <Snip> p <Snip> f <Snip> e. <Snip> ith <Snip> he <Snip> f <Snip> This is excellent advice, RK. I'll add in that while I primarily use my Livia for espresso, and Americano's for myself...Everyone else wants milk based drinks...and I'm really happy with the steaming power. I bought Livia used, but well taken care of. I spent a month really getting to know her ways, but the 4 months that I had with my 'lil Gaggia Espresso machine were invaluable. I paid attention to all the details that go into making 'real' espresso and I was pretty happy when I finally hit a 2.5 oz 25 second shot with the double basket. Then I learned how to keep doing it! Worth every penny, IMHO learning the ropes on a base line machine. I learned how to froth with the meager tiny boiler on the Gaggia...I totally appreciate Liv's power that much more.... She's definitely a keeper! And there is no substitute for a quality grinder. I spent more on my Rocky @ $285. than the Gaggia, $120 + eBay highway robbery shipping charges.... |
On May 28, 2005, at 8:15 pm, Jeff Braman wrote: <Snip> It's should probably be noted that the S1 is a dual boiler machine, rather than an HX machine like the Andreja/Tea or single boiler like the Silvia, which puts it in a completely separate class. John Blumel |
On May 28, 2005, at 6:55 pm, R.N.Kyle wrote: <Snip> Actually, I would say that the best "asset" of the Andreja is the temperature stability of the E61 grouphead. Unfortunately, as pointed out earlier by MM, the single boiler E61 machines seem to be disappearing from the market so there don't seem to be many single boiler E61 options in the price range between the Silvia and the Andreja. There are a few Isomac Zafiros (~$850, vs. ~$500 for a Silvia & ~$1400 for an Andreja) out there if one searches for them. <Snip> This is probably the best advice in this thread so far. John Blumel |
Hi Tara, I have an Andreja. I don't have any prior experience with espresso (and I= feel like it's beginners luck) but the espresso I pull is better than any I= have bought! I mainly drink Americanos and espresso, but also enjoy an occasional latte or cappo. My family loves milk based drinks, and I often= make flavored drinks for them. I mixed my own hot cocoa mix made with Splenda and the kids ( and my husband) add that to milk and make the best= hot cocoa we've ever had. I like entertaining and I consider my Andreja a= wonderful kitchen tool. I may not use all the options but my family and guests do! It really is a wonderful machine, I can barely walk by without= wanting to pull a shot! Sue On 5/28/05, John Blumel wrote: <Snip> |
Hi - I just want to thank everyone for their input - I'm definitely going to think about this for a while. Especially since the Gaggia is doing just fine (I've nicknamed him Hal because of Tom's comments about 2001 on the SM website - why I decided it's a him rather than a her is anyone's guess). I want to get good technique before I upgrade, so I know what I'm doing rather than trying to rely on the ability of the machine. Just roasted some Kona (PM) and some of the El Salvador Miel, so I'll be curious as to how they turned out... --------- |