Hi all - I wanted to get some feedback, and hear some comments on this... Here's just the latest example of what I am talking about ... something I come across while researching backyard trees, of all things:http://www.arborday.org/shopping/Coffee/Coffee.cfmI get frustrated, very frustrated, with the marketing of "good conscience" that uses coffee. I know, it's about money, it's an easy way to generate some extra revenue. If you have an iota of knowledge about coffee, you will find such marketing to be patently false. The frustration is that I basically support, endorse, believe in the principles of these organizations. But shouldn't they be called on their inaccuracy? Why does the pitch have to be exaggerated or downright false? Should I/We email these people when we see stuff like this, or just chalk it up to (fill in the blank)? Tom -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - "Great coffee comes from tiny roasters" Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting - Tom & Maria http://www.sweetmarias.com Thompson Owen george Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - tom |
Tom, Non-profit is big money. There are a number of universities that have MBA-like programs that are geared toward getting folks high-paying jobs in= non-profit organizations. I'm sure that some of these folks are marketeers. --MikeW On 8/22/05, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee |
I think something akin to this e-mail would be good. Something explaining you support them, but not the exaggerated claims, that a label does not make the coffee great. I am right there with you - why does it have to be exaggerated and slated. At 18:09 8/22/2005, you wrote: <Snip> John Nanci AlChemist at large Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/ |
Taken as a whole, the advertisement is inaccurate. But I think we lost "truth in advertising" quite some time ago. Specific statements, = however, could be considered accurate - if they stood on their own. = Unfortunately, the point of marketing is to sell product, not to convey truths. I'd compare this approach to SweetMaria's approach. SM is not in the "fundraising business" per se, but offers quality products, tried and = tested by the owners, and has built a solid business base with very little advertising. Most of it, I guess, is probably word of mouth (I know I = talk you guys up constantly) with the occasional media mention. The Rain Forest Rescue (a noble cause, I'm sure) is not, however, in the coffee business. They are in the business of fundraising. If that = means selling coffee beans using misleading statements that paint a = "horrendous" picture, they seem to be OK with it. Is the rainforest in trouble? = Sure. Are coffee plantations horrid? Not all of them, I'd guess. Are coffee plantations responsible for denuding the rainforest? No. Or, at least = deal with the corporate deforestation of the rainforest before hitting on the coffee growers. Would I call them on it? Probably not. I was actually more upset about = the plagiarism of the SweetMaria's site. Also, am I the only one who finds the statement "A plantation, of = course, needs a large, sunny, flat area" to be a huge assumption with a slight racial tinge? I can't find a single definition of plantation that = includes "large, sunny, flat area" as part of the defintion. Sounds like = someone's education regarding plantations ended with their Civil War History = class. Brent Roasting in an SC/TO Espressing myself with a Via Veneto and LaPavoni <Snip> |
Tom, People in all industries are at times blatantly untruthful to make dollars. Some people want to believe that they are "helping" the planet or mankind when buying a product.(sellers exploit this, obviously!) I believe that running your business, honestly, as you do and providing service and support and resource, set's a great example; perhaps you also attract the type of repeat customers that you enjoy and like!? I have learned that there is "good" and "bad" business and also good and bad customers; I try my hardest to keep and attract my definition of good..................................... They have a need for my products They have the ability to pay for my products. They appreciate the quality of the product and the honest ethical service and support that my company and I provide. I have learned to "walk" from many opportunities that don't fit the above profile. Most people appreciate honesty and support, in my "informal" surveys! If I am honest with myself and my customers, am satisfied, Trying to explain to others about ethics, honesty and good business practice to those that don't want to hear it, wastes my time and theirs. Some of the best advice I ever recieved was "allow all people to say, act and feel" ; found out, that they don't much care what I think and they will do as they please, anyway...........................but it sure makes it easier for me!! Regards, jeffb |
<Snip>
I know ... and mostly I accept that. It's just that every so often
the pill seems more bitter ...
And thanks for all the nice comments - I feel they are about 33% deserved ...
<Snip>
I found that statement to be especially odd, and unclear at best.
Michael is dead on - "non-profit" is parenthetical for sure.
AJ - boy, I could save a lot of time typing that! - I just feel like
emailing every time I read this stuff is , well, I can't think of
another analogy ... peeing into the wind. And if you actually went
looking for this stuff it could be a fulltime job. Why does coffee
seem to attract such fiendishly false advertising? Doesn't it seem
more of a target than other products (chocolate excepted! And on that
note, how about that Hershey's going Californian on us?)
Tom
--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Great coffee comes from tiny roasters"
Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting - Tom & Maria
http://www.sweetmarias.com Thompson Owen george
Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - tom |
As far as I am concerned. Its probably another tree hugging moron who's got their brain poisoned on the pot they are smoking and are set on a mission. To even think you can talk sense into them with things like the truth, accuracy, possibly history, research etc.. is totally lost on them. Afterall they know everything, they said so, so therefore it's so. We can write them... or not, but somehow I doubt it'd make a bit of difference and you will end up with a screeching scathing reply of non believer treekiller, yadda yadda. Whenever you see something that is preaching for a cause, yet has a hidden agenda, no matter how obvious, this agenda is, most of the times you are not going to steer them from their course easily. yeah it angers you, because you know the truth, but until ignorance becomes painful... it's not worth the time to try to educate most of them. youd probably be better off trying to convince starbucks that they are selling burnt garbage and to change their style. They are selling a sob story for money, the truth doesn't tug at the purse strings quite as much as their boo hoo fest. aaron |
<Snip> Tom, I don't see the harm that you do, but then I suspect you may not see the harm in issues that are dear to my heart either. I read the page and what I see are three non-for-profits working together for their mutual benefit. Sure they make some outrageous claims about their coffee program, but I suspect it is more from ignorance than meaness or greed. In a later email you ask, "Why does coffee seem to attract such fiendishly false advertising? Well, let's see, its the world's second leading commodity next to crude oil and you can't eat crude oil. Considering how little people know about their favorite beverage, I suspect it is as much the consumer's fault. If they knew more, the hype would be a little smarter. To me, in this specific case, 'caveat emptor' says it all. imho, Dan |
--- Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee
wrote:
<Snip>
OK. Feedback. A great deal of coffee is grown on logged
off land, and drenched in strong poisonous chemicals.
Central America comes to mind, and Colombia. A fair amount
of coffee is grown under at least some forest cover, and is
probably the only reason that that particular forest hasn't
been logged and turned into pasture for cattle and
goats.(the highlands of southern Mexico, for example). A
huge pile of coffee comes from never forested grass and
scrub land in Brazil. A significant amount(Africa,India ,
Indonesia)is grown amongst other garden crops. What was it
exactly that pushed you button so hard in that article? I
like shade grown coffee and wish there was more of it, even
though it's not always practical for the farmers. These
days much more forest is falling to make room for soy beans
and suburbs, than is being cut to grow coffee, but 100
years ago tropical forests were butchered wholesale for
coffee plantations. I like to support estates like MDLS in
Colombia who are spending a lot of cash to reforest their
land, even though they obviously lose lbs. per acre of
coffee. I haven't seen a many of those "flat plantations"
mentioned, but the lower elevation, clear cut, full sun
coffee farms are ones that use the most chemicals. Land
like that isn't going back into forest no matter what now.
If you can drive a tractor on it, and there's a year 'round
road to it, it's field crops, pasture or houses (or
businesses)forever.
<Snip>
money,> it's an easy way to generate some extra revenue.
<Snip>
Write them. Why not? Again--what exactly is so patently
false?(just askin') God knows forests are disappearing
fast, and most coffee plantations want maximum yield, so
that means less trees that take up space that could hold
coffee bushes. That tends to result in more fertilizer and
herbicides, erosion and water pollution, loss of
biodiversity....No?
I certainly agree that coffee growing is just one of many
many offenders in tropical regions' pollution, erosion etc
etc, yet coffee gets picked on as if growing more of it in
forest shade could solve all of the Earth's environmental
problems. That *is* quite a pitiful delusion, if anyone
believes it.
Respectfully,
Charlie
Oaxaca dreamin'
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On Aug 22, 2005, at 9:11 PM, Aaron wrote:
<Snip>
Thanks Aaron,
For providing an example of using marketing tools to promote
right wing political lying. Use no facts, just make sure you get
the impression out there every chance you get that everything bad is
associated with the left in some way. The truth is that almost all
the use of marketing and public relations for creating false
understandings, that is lying, is done by Bush's corporate base to
sell crap and Bush himself to lie us into war.
Jim Gundlach
|
I missed this before, but I take it you are a TRUE BELIEVER of global Warming and all of it's effects. What on earth in Tom's original posting Could've provoked this bit of nasty right wing garbage. Gene On 8/22/05 10:11 PM, "Aaron" wrote: <Snip> |
Hey- As far as I can tell they are probably a bunch of well intentioned (maybe a bit misguided) individuals in search of like-minded individuals to further their cause. I am thinking that since you are basically in tune with the premise, ARE a subject matter expert, and could spare just a few moments... maybe you could volunteer a SMALL amount of time to set the records straight. |
I was sorry to hear that Hershey's bought Scharffen Berger and Joseph Schmidt. A piece of one of Scharffen Berger's dark chocolate bars with a cup of presspot is a real treat. For gifts, people have loved getting a pound of homeroasted and a Scharffen Berger bar. I give both companies about a year before quality starts to change. Dreyer's quality started going downhill fairly quickly after they were bought out by Nestle. Fortunately, Fog City News in SF carries a nice variety of chocolate bars from around the world. A variety almost as varied as coffee: cocoa contents, cocoa butter contents, areas where the cocoa was grown or processed. Brent Roasting in an SC/TO Espressing myself with a LaPavoni <Snip> |
Ditto for when Hersey's bought Friendly's Ice Cream, which originated Out here in Wilbraham, Ma. In 1935. They wrecked some of the greatest Tasting ice cream Gene On 8/23/05 8:31 AM, "Brent - SC/TO Roasting" wrote: <Snip> |
At 19:11 8/22/2005, you wrote: <Snip> Yeah, but it doesn't have the same ring :-) <Snip> Now that I mull it over, I think what bugs me most about this kind of thing is the claim that just by being shade grow automatically taste better, forgetting post processing altogether. I have tasted good shade grown, but I have tasted baggy, bland shade grown too. I have asked people what their coffee preference is, and I have received "shade grown". When I tried to get more from them, it turns into "organic" and then "french roast" ARRRRRGGG. <Snip> Well, since you brought it up :-) that is something that makes me want to tear my own hair out. People wanting organic, FT cocoa for no other reason than the "concept" of what it means - they don't care what it tastes like. My organic beans sell hands down 2:1 better than my non-organic, but I turn down 3 times that in organic because it is sour and tastes like crap. You taught me that is no way to run a business!!! Anyway, I thought it was a sad day when ScharrfenBerger bought Hersheys. But then again, I have to say, it does not surprise me. SB (the owner) always said the company was a business investment, that that was his focus, not the chocolate. And, now that I am "into" chocolate, I have found I classify SB a lot like (wow, same initials, hrrrrmmmm) *$ (SB). I find they were great for the small chocolate industry, but frankly, they over roast their beans and very little varietal comes through. I really don't care for SB (either one, same reason :-). John Nanci AlChemist at large Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/ |
<Snip> Aww...c'mon, Jim...tell us how you *really* feel! Us tree-hugging morons who have poisoned our brains on the pot we're smoking thank you! Of course, my pot smoking is entirely in the past tense by about 20 years or so...but I'm pretty sure my brain remains poisoned 'cause I still think despoiling the planet is a bad idea. This might be traceable to the fact that I don't expect to be whisked off to any alternate paradise - with or without hot-and-cold-running virgins - and therefore am concerned about not screwing up the only planet we actually have. And I *have* been known to hug the occasional tree (they don't seem to mind). Gene Smith still able to roast coffee - in spite of the brain damage from non-sanctioned lifestyles |
--- Alchemist John wrote:
<Snip>
Well put, John. That claim that shade grown *has* to taste
better must be what got Tom so steamed. I should have read
the article more slowly before posting.
Charlie
Oaxaca dreamin'
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Thanks for all the sane responses to my post - I am not particularly
sure why that one pushed my buttons. You make good points and are
correct. But at the same time, that text is false (or contains the
bare minimum of truth - true in some cases, false in the majority of
cases). Why did that bug me ... I dunno. End of a long day? Too much
work? Actually, like I said, it's because I expect hyperbole and
exaggerated claims ("the finest coffee" "Rich and smooth" "Roasted by
monkeys" , what have you) from certain quarters. And I hope for
something better from others. With text like this arbor day ad, both
the crass, untrue commercial claims and the well-meaning
"informative" claims are sounding a bit similar.
I decided to write them a note, and offer (if they wanted) to write
compelling AND true ad text for their page.
Tom
Most coffee is grown on plantations. A plantation, of course, needs a
large, sunny, flat area. Rain forests must be stripped to make room
for agribusiness.
Remarkably, shade coffee tastes better than sun-grown varieties. The
sheltering forest produces nutrient-rich soil, protects the coffee
plants from the harsh sun, and causes the coffee to mature more
slowly and fully. As a result, shade coffee has a rich, complex
flavor and a fine aroma.
Why don't more companies produce coffee in harmony with the forest?
You guessed it ... profits.
--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Great coffee comes from tiny roasters"
Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting - Tom & Maria
http://www.sweetmarias.com Thompson Owen george
Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - tom |
At 10:26 AM -0700 8/23/05, Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee wrote: <Snip> Nicely done! --Edward |
On 23/08/05, Alchemist John wrote: <Snip> When I roasted some coffee for my church's fund-raising auction, you can be sure that I bought Organic, Fair Trade (Ethiopian -- my favorite origin) coffee from Tom. But I did NOT roast it to French. No sirree. I followed Tom's recommendation, and roasted it in the City - FC range. Since I had to run about 5 batches to get the 3 x 1/2 pound I was auctioning, I made a melange. What I figured was that the tree-hugging liberals in my Unitarian-Universalist congregation (yup, that's me) would key in on the "key words" (FT/O) and I'd "sneak" in some really good coffee, too. =Spencer |