This is a multi-part message in MIME format. When I joined the list over two years ago, the espresso people and roasting people seemed to balance out in their contributions. Well, I up and bought and I-Roast just after their introduction and have been happily roasting since with predictably excellent results thanks to advice from a lot of you. I now have an I-2 after the motor died in the I-1. Most of my coffee has been Cuisinart drip, French press, and Vac pot. Yeah, my wife and I love the brown stuff. This Christmas, things changed. We received an espresso machine. Hold down the laughter please - it's a DeLonghi Bar32. While it's certainly a lower end model, it does give me an idea of what to expect from espresso and I love what I taste. The machine came with PODs, but I'm mostly grinding my own. I do prefer the 3oz stainless cups that Tom & Maria sell, though I do have a nice set of 2oz chinaware and I'm not sure how to dose the two different sizes. So, when my wife isn't looking, I'll plug the DeLonghi into a 5Kv p.s. to "fix" it. But not until I have a new machine selected. That's where the list members figure in. The more I research the subject, the more confusing it becomes. It seems that Miss Sylvia and the Gaggia s/s Classic are at the top of the list (especially cost-wise) and I can live with a Sylvia 20 minute warm up. Even though Tom and Maria's site provides a wealth of information, there's still this confusing gray area. So I'd really appreciate a little guidance based on your collective personal experiences. Thanks to all. BTW, I'm staying out of the Ginny thing (but I sure miss her posts) - besides, I don't know what really happened. Randy Poe ydnareop |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I've had a Silvia since X-mas and I love it. You don't need to let it warm up for 20+ min if you do some searching on the net about temp surfing. You can get away with a 5 - 8 min warm-up. Silvia is a little picky about the right grind, tamp, etc... but overall, she looks great on my counter and so far, I would not change a thing. I will recommend that you purchase a good grinder such as the Rocky or another high-quality brand. I was using a capresso grinder and having a heck of a time getting good 25 second shots. Now with my air-popper roasted coffee, Rocky and Silvia, I've been pulling 25 second shots for the last few days (I just go the Rocky). Good luck! From: homeroast-admin [mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Ydnar Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 3:55 PM To: homeroast Subject: +Espresso machine advice When I joined the list over two years ago, the espresso people and roasting people seemed to balance out in their contributions. Well, I up and bought and I-Roast just after their introduction and have been happily roasting since with predictably excellent results thanks to advice from a lot of you. I now have an I-2 after the motor died in the I-1. Most of my coffee has been Cuisinart drip, French press, and Vac pot. Yeah, my wife and I love the brown stuff. This Christmas, things changed. We received an espresso machine. Hold down the laughter please - it's a DeLonghi Bar32. While it's certainly a lower end model, it does give me an idea of what to expect from espresso and I love what I taste. The machine came with PODs, but I'm mostly grinding my own. I do prefer the 3oz stainless cups that Tom & Maria sell, though I do have a nice set of 2oz chinaware and I'm not sure how to dose the two different sizes. So, when my wife isn't looking, I'll plug the DeLonghi into a 5Kv p.s. to "fix" it. But not until I have a new machine selected. That's where the list members figure in. The more I research the subject, the more confusing it becomes. It seems that Miss Sylvia and the Gaggia s/s Classic are at the top of the list (especially cost-wise) and I can live with a Sylvia 20 minute warm up. Even though Tom and Maria's site provides a wealth of information, there's still this confusing gray area. So I'd really appreciate a little guidance based on your collective personal experiences. Thanks to all. BTW, I'm staying out of the Ginny thing (but I sure miss her posts) - besides, I don't know what really happened. Randy Poe ydnareop |
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If I were you, I'd keep an eye out for a used NS Oscar or Expobar Office--HX machines that can be had used for the price of a new Silvia, far more forgiving, and able to steam and brew simultaneously = and for a veritable horde. Silvia is tricky--she has given me many a G-d shot but much frustration as well. On Jan 16, 2006, at 7:12 PM, Brett Mason wrote: <Snip> <Snip> <Snip> <Snip> <Snip> <Snip> <Snip> <Snip> Sandy www.sandyandina.com |
Really a tough (and often asked) question. I used Miss Silvia daily for 3&1/2 years until Dec. '05, a great single boiler machine IMO. OTH I know people just as happy with their Gaggia Classics. From what I understand the Gaggia might be easier to use initially having less temp overshoot because of IRRC smaller boiler, OTH the same smaller boiler I've heard doesn't perform as well steaming. Also the Gaggias have aluminum boilers while the Silvia brass, makes a difference to some people. Another factor could be a rather large experience group to draw from on the Silvia. A big question could be do you plan on making milk based drinks on a regular basis? If so you may want to really consider an entry level HX machine. If for only one you can get by with a single boiler, but even making two cappucinos with a single boiler is a huge compromise in drink quality. Having recently upgraded from Silvia to a higher end HX it's really nice being able to go directly from shot to steaming. (or with some machines even start shot and immediately start steaming, which is what I'm able to do with the Bricoletta.) I'd also suggest you spend some time on home-barrista.com and coffeegeek.com reading anything and everthing pertaining to espresso. Of course, the result could be even more confused than now!-) Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before. From: homeroast-admin [mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Ydnar Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 12:55 PM That's where the list members figure in. The more I research the subject, the more confusing it becomes. It seems that Miss Sylvia and the Gaggia s/s Classic are at the top of the list (especially cost-wise) and I can live with a Sylvia 20 minute warm up. Even though Tom and Maria's site provides a wealth of information, there's still this confusing gray area. So I'd really appreciate a little guidance based on your collective personal experiences. |
Aw, heck, just point to the LM GS3 threat and avoid upgradeits. |
<Snip> ROFLOL! At first I thought it was a typo, but no... Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before. |
Yea, too much time reading on HB = threat to checking account. |
I've been using the Gaggia Espresso that the list members helped get me into... I've been quite happy with it. I make pretty much exclusively lattes and haven't had any problems with a lack of steam. It also gets up to temp pretty quickly. I usually turn it on when I get up for work in the morning and it's ready before I'm ready to make my morning latte. This particular machine definitely isn't for high volume use though... LarryD |
A couple days late on this, but why not. I am one of the ones with a Gaggia Classic and am happy with it. I don't do any steamed drinks, so that is moot for my consideration. I also started with a Delonghi, so no laughing here. I was happy with it. The one thing it REALLY taught me was my technique. You don't have much else to go on. So my advise is to follow in my Delonghi-Gaggia steps and go for a Gaggia. At 17:18 1/16/2006, you wrote: <Snip> John Nanci AlChemist at large Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/ |
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I need some advice on which espresso machine to buy. Right now I am using an Isomac Venus and have been quite happy with her, but in July when we did the NYC espresso tasting field trip we started our day by visiting John Nanavati. I fell in love with his Quickmill Vetrano. What a beauty. And quiet! That rotary pump is a gem. I'm not sure the Vetrano is what I want to purchase but it I'd like something similar. (I'm still trying to figure out the difference between the Vetrano and the Andreja Premium). My budget is $1500 ħ $100 and Mickie and I agreed today that I should fund this new Mistress with earnings from my coffee sales. I am refurbishing a Mazzer Major that I will be selling and will ultimately sell Venus. The $$$ from those two sales will augment the fund. I only sell 25 - 30 pounds of coffee a month, at $10 per pound y'all know that I am not making a killing there. It will be a while before the fund is built up for any significant purchase. In the meantime, here are my preferences. I prefer shiny stainless to brushed. Silly maybe, but with the big price tag "pretty" gets to count. My wife doesn't (often) drink straight espresso, so I need the ability to steam without having to wait like I have to with Venus. I guess this means I need either a double boiler or a HX. I don't know which (nor why). We both drink Americanos, so a hot water spout would be a big plus. I would like a pressure stat so I am not stuck pumping at 13 bar just because some Italian set it that way when he built it. I will probably plumb the unit to my water line, but this isn't a necessary feature - unless plumbing is required to have a rotary pump. Possibly a PID too. I haven't seen much talk about pidding a HX machine - but I haven't been looking either. Since I haven't been in the market for a new espresso machine, I have ignored most of the espresso maker posts for the last couple years so I know that I am way behind the curve when we bring technology into the equation. I have alot to learn, but again, this isn't a purchase that I will make soon, but it IS on my horizon. So with all I have said, and some may be without foundation, what would *YOU* buy if you had $1400 - $1600 burning a hole in your pocket? I am open to suggestion and willing (and ready) to learn. Please do what you can to make me smart! Thanks, JavaJerry RK Drum roasting in Chesapeake, VA |
Jerry Procopio wrote: "I need some advice on which espresso machine to buy." I'm kind of surprised that no one has yet responded to this. I'll throw my suggestion out there, which meets many (but not all) of your requirements. My machine is a La Spaziale Vivaldi II. It is quite a bit over your budget (goes for $2k), but is truly excellent. It hits many of the features you want (double boiler, unlimited steaming capacity, very stable temp management, no surfing, direct plumb, rotary pump, hot water). It misses on a couple, though, too, most notably the price. The other thing about it is it's a bit ugly. Some would say "industrial looking", but with its dark sides, it doesn't have the striking appearance of the all-stainless models out there. I'm very, very happy with it. The double boiler is an enormously useful feature. I pretty much never have to worry about temperature (you can set the temp in 1 degree C increments). The rotary pump is relatively quiet. I didn't think that the fact that it's directly plumbed would make that much of a difference to me, but it is so much nicer than filling a reservoir. The Vetrano is a very good machine, too. It's certainly a lot prettier, has top quality components, and is in your price range. But you're going to have to decide whether you "need" a double boiler, or if an HX machine will suffice. For me, the wife drinks a lot of milk drinks, so I opted for the convenience of the double boiler over beauty (the lovely LM GS3 wasn't out yet, as if I could have afforded it). One other double boiler that you may want to take a look at is the Expobar Brewtus. Reviews on Coffee Geek and H-B on the ones that make your short list are a must read, too. You can find the Vivaldi for sale at the same retailer that offers the Vetrano. -AdkMike |
If I needed a home espresso machine with a $1400-$1600 machine budget = I'd buy the same machine that's been on my counter for just shy of two = years: Fiorenzato Bricoletta direct plumbed rotary lever semi-automatic = currently MSRP $1694 selling for $1473 inc. s/h. The Izzo Alex might be an option = if wanting rotary with tank or direct plumbed operation already built in at = the simple flip of a lever. However the Alex would not perform as well as = the Bric' in high usage entertaining being designed to operate on 15A with = it's 1400w heater compared to Bric's 1900w heater. Lower powered heater and corresponding slower recovery/rebound times same for Quick Mill line. = But the performance difference would really only be seen if your skills were = up to speed anyway and not an issue for a couple of espresso beverages. But = a big difference if entertaining with a dozen or so to make! Primary difference between QM Vetrano and AJ: rotary direct plumbed = versus vibe pump tank with direct plumb option. FWIW I agree looks matter, you're gonna be looking at whatever you = decide for years to come. I love the retro shiny corrugated "garbage can wrap" = of the original Bricoletta line (verus the Volante Bricoletta line and most other prosumer machines) While the original Bricoletta line does not = have shot pressure gauge, it's not an issue. Shot pressue is something you = set and forget not stare at while pulling shots. PF gauge to temporarily = mount on your PF around a quarter. (quarter C note that is:-) There are currently really only two DB prosumer machines and both over = your stated budget. The vibe pump tank fill Expobar Brewtus II $1699.99 and direct plumbed rotary La Spaziale Vivaldi II $1995. Between the two I'd recommend the VII for various reasons. How HX (heat exchanger) versus DB (dual boiler) differ? Rather than regurgitate what's already been = written time for you to hit Home-barista and get studying! Maybe start here:http://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGVI.htmKona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee">http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-guide.htmlPacific Northwest Gathering VIhttp://home.comcast.net/~mckona/PNWGVI.htmKona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee www.mcKonaKoffee.com URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://www.mckoffee.com/Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I = must first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal = enlightenment found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone = before. Sweet Maria's List - Searchable Archiveshttp://themeyers.org/HomeRoast/ <Snip> |
1500 is a good budget for a machine. i 2nd the spaz, and the v1 can be found in your range. another option for good coffee is the elektra microcasa personally though, having an hx and a lever, id spend the money on a lever, which is most likely less money! On 10/5/07, mirrera wrote: <Snip> |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Jerry, I have had a Vetrano for 14 months now, so I may be of some assistance. = I have interspersed answers and comments to your original post. See = below. <Snip> the <Snip> the Andreja Premium). The Vetrano and the Andrea are very similar, but the differences are = that the Andrea uses a vibe pump and has a water reservoir. There is an = optional plumb in kit available for it. The Vetrano has a rotary pump = and no tank. It must be plumbed in. Otherwise the machines are pretty = much the same. As you mentioned the roatary pump is much quieter and it = has a smother delivery of water and the maximum pressure can be easily = set. The downside is that it must be plumbed in which limits its = portability and where it can be installed. I did not find this to be a = problem, but YMMV. <Snip> <Snip> The shiny finish shows finger prints and water spots more than the = brushed, but they clean off easily. The Vetrano is a very pretty and = impressive looking machine. This has nothing to do with its = functionality, but like you said, pretty does count for something. My wife doesn't (often) drink straight espresso, so I need the <Snip> <Snip> <Snip> I <Snip> <Snip> machine <Snip> Like I said earlier, the rotary pump requires a contiunal water supply. = I would also recommend a leak detector in the supply line to turn off = the water source if something goes wrong. Before I got one, I had a = valve malfunction during the night and flood my kitchen. The plumbed in = system provides an unlimited amount of water for brewing, but also for = flooding. There are PID kits available for HX machines, but they really aren't = needed. The temp surf procedure with an HX is very simple and straight = forward. It is also very predictable. (When I visited miKe, he = demonstrated how accurate his countin procedure was using a Scace for = verification. He was within 2/10 of a degree of his target temp. Of = course, miKe's abilities are above average) All HXs that I kow of use a = pressure stat for temperature control. If you get a Vetrano, spend the = extra for the upgraded stat. It is highly worth it and costs a lot less = as an upgrade than as a replacement later. <Snip> I <Snip> I <Snip> would <Snip> In general, HX machines cost a bit less than DB machines. They require = a little more talent to use. You have to do a simple temp surf to get = the brew temp correct. With the DB, you still need to do a flush of the = grouphead, but the temp is more stable. This is an advantage if you use = the same SO or blend most of the time. The HX actually lets you adjust = temps on the fly easier for different brews. All in all, I have been pleased with my Vetrano. I have had a couple of = problems, but Chris' service dept. was excellent to deal with. I bought = a unit that had been returned under the buyer's remorse policy. I got a = substantal discount and it came with the same warranty as a new machine. = The other machine I seriously considered was the Bric. I think it = might be built a bit more heavy duty than the Vetrano, but their specs = arevery similar. I would have bought which ever one I got the best deal = on and it turned out to be the Vetrano. Since Tom sells machines, I won't comment on dealers on list, but if you = contact me off list, I will share what I know about them. If you have not already read these articles, or if someone else is = reading this and is interested, there are a couple of articles on Home = Barista that explain how various machines work. |
The "Bric" is one nice looking machine and it is very predictable in gettin= g your temps once you learn the surfing techniques. Since firing up the Expobar again, I am enjoying my Office Control. I still think the Expobar is one of the best bangs for the buck out there. The Office lever looks nice and has a lot of chrome. I have the Office control and love the electronic programmable controls. For home use, I have never had a problem. I can't bang out shots like Mike, but with only 3 coffee drinkers max in the house it isn't a problem. These machines are under a grand. If money wasn't an object, I would get a Spaziale. If you must have a rotary, I would look hard and long at the Bric and the Alex by Izzo. I like the Alex because of its flexibility. I like the Bric because of its larger boiler. Now to confuse you even more, I would personally consider the Valentina Automatic by Grimac Royal. I like electronic controls! It is in your price range. I am also strongly of the opinion that a commercial machine that is used as a home machine simply has more power than needed an= d you are not using it like it was intended to be used. It would be like running my 68 hot rod truck between 2500 rpm and 3000 rpm when the power band doesn't really kick in until about 4500 rpm! Besides if I don't wind it up, the plugs foul and it doesn't run very good. The same is true with an espresso machine. If they are designed to pull shot after shot and you don't well I think I have painted the picture. Enjoy your shopping! Les Les On 10/5/07, miKe mcKoffee wrote: <Snip> y <Snip> f <Snip> a <Snip> s <Snip> f <Snip> t <Snip> t <Snip> |