Could somebody out there tell me what a cafe Suisse is?
Many thanks,
 
Jeff

 I have always thought it was a 5 oz. pull in 25 sec. making a nice =
strong cup of coffee with some creama
That is how I make them.
RK

Sounds great. I can hardly wait to try it.  My Solis Crema can  probably 
handle that automatically if I set it to the number six.  I think  that will be at 
least four ounces. I'll try it out later today... sort of an  Americano 
without adding plain water.... interesting.  THANKS
 
Jeff

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It's sometimes called a cafe creme.  Think of it as a very, very  
"long" espresso--about 4-6 oz. pull. As opposed to an Americano  
(which is a shot or shots pulled into or diluted with hot water), all  
of the water in the drink comes into contact with the grounds in the  
portafilter while brewing.  Some machines (especially those single- 
cup one-trick-pony pod machines like the Senseo or Keurig) also  
introduce air into the process to create froth that resembles crema  
but is not.
On Feb 27, 2006, at 1:02 PM, Turbosimba wrote:
<Snip>
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It's sometimes called a cafe =
creme.  Think of it as a very, very "long" espresso--about 4-6 oz. =
pull. As opposed to an Americano (which is a shot or shots pulled into =
or diluted with hot water), all of the water in the drink comes into =
contact with the grounds in the portafilter while brewing.  Some =
machines (especially those single-cup one-trick-pony pod machines like =
the Senseo or Keurig) also introduce air into the process to create =
froth that resembles crema but is not.
On Feb 27, 2006, at =
1:02 PM, Turbosimba =
wrote:
  Could somebody out there tell me what a cafe Suisse =
is? Many thanks,   =
Jeff
=
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A cafe suisse/crema must read.  Originally posted by HV.http://makeashorterlink.com/?C102417BCSome key points:
longer shot (volumewise) = shorter time
A first key factor in making a *good* long shot, such as a café
crema, is proper shot timing, which, in this case, means *shorter*.
Volume and shot time are negatively correlated, because the increased
flow through the coffee extracts more substances in the same time.
Another important element is a grinding coarser. You can't make a
proper long shot with espresso grind (trust me, it'll taste bl&&dy
awful), you need to adjust the grinder. A first reason for choosing a
coarser grind is getting the proper flow rate - it's simply very hard
to pump the preferred amount of water through a bed of very fine
grinds.
Although it will be pretty difficult to get a 10 oz shot from a home
machine, it's possible to get a 150ml shot, and the small boiler size
may not the limiting factor here. The brew water will definitely
decrease in temperature while pulling a long shot, but, in a way that
is "good", since this too slows down extraction.(Aside, Illy actually
patented a system for making café lungos. The patent describes the
use of a control system that reduces the temperature of a t-block
over time to prevent overextraction.)
The fourth, and possibly biggest question, is how much water your
espresso machine can squeeze through the required amount of coffee.
It was difficult to get a good 150-ish ml lungo from my old Gaggia,
but I find that I can pull a very decent 200 ml shot on my current
gear. I'm now using a Reneka Techno machine with a volumetric pump.
Enjoy!
Rich Adams

(Rich: Oops, meant to reply to list.)
That sounds like good advice. How do you think Cafe Suisse/Creme done 
properly compares to Cafe Americano? An advantage to the Americano is 
you don't have to dial in the grinder again. Would you say Cafe Suisse 
is more or less sensitive to grind and dose and temperature than an 
Americano? I'm pretty happy with Americanos, but maybe one of these 
weekends when I have some time I'll experiment with Cafe Suisse.
Maybe it didn't work out for me last time since my Ulka vibe pump has a 
much steeper pressure/flow rate curve than a rotary pump. I wonder if 
it can even get 150 ml in 15 seconds. (I'm guessing that's a reasonable 
time?)
Thanks,
-Paul
Quoting Rich Adams :
A cafe suisse/crema must read.  Originally posted by HV.
[...]

I tried a long pull from my espresso machine today. I filled the one shot  
filter and I got about 4 ounces out of it. It tasted great, but still not enough 
 for a Suisse I believe.  My espresso machine is semi automatic.  I  think 
I'll have to use a #4 setting and then set it for two cups, giving me  a  #8 
which will fill a four ounce cup to the  top...

<Snip>
Good point. Conversely a shorter shot (ristretto) longer time, usually
targeted 30-35sec.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.http://www.mdm.livingfreeandclear.com

Interesting, and makes a lot of sense ("longer shot (volumewise) = =
shorter
time"). But what I don't understand is this: shouldn't a café suisse =
taste
pretty much the same as an americano? If I am extracting the same =
amount of
"stuff" and only varying the amount of water passed through the puck, =
does
it really matter if I pull a straight espresso and then dilute with =
water
rather than coarsen the grind and pull more water through? If they are =
more
or less equivalent, americano's are certainly a lot easier.
Donn Milton
--

Only one way to find out--try it! (And let us know--I am also curious. 
If I didn't have a used commercial machine to take apart this weekend 
I'd try it myself.) I suspect there is some difference. I think a 
ristretto shot + hot water wouldn't taste like a normale. Americanos 
are definitely much easier.
Quoting Donn Milton :
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ste
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re
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I may be in a minority here, but I strive for a 25-30 second pull, whether 
it is a single shot of espresso or a five ounce Cafe Suisse.  I vary the 
size of the grind to achieve the different times with differing volumes of 
water.  This produces a delicious Cafe Suisse that is in no way as dilute 
as an americano.
Dan

I have a Suisse question.  My Solis Crema SL 90 has different cup  settings 
from 1 to 6.  When set for #3 it will fill the average little  espresso cup 
almost to the top. This is the setting I use when I fill the single  porta filler 
with one scoop of coffee, which I suppose is about 7 grams, but I  don't know 
for sure.   I can press the two cup button at each number  from 1 to 6 and 
that doubles the shot in case I want to make two cups at  once.   Of course this 
can also be used to make a double sized single  cup.  I tried making 
something like a Suisse today but setting the number  setting to #6 and then doubling 
the shot.  I used the double shot porta  filter with two scoops of medium 
grind home roasted coffee.  I put a 6  ounce cup under the filter and pressed the 
start button.  My 6 oz cup was  filled almost to the top.  What resulted was 
pretty fresh and good tasting,  but not quite strong enough for my taste.  I 
think the next time I'll try a  #5 setting doubled and see what results. I will 
probably produce about 5 oz of  coffee that way.  My question is, does any of 
this qualify as a cafe  Suisse, or do I need more coffee, water, etc. ?