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Topic: Database Project (4 msgs / 139 lines)
1) From: Don Staricka
I am piping in here for the first time. I am new to this list so I don't
know the history of the database project. In particular, I don't know what
the purpose of the database will be. I also think that much of the
discussion could be conducted off the list since it is getting too
technical for most participants. I would like to be involved with the
project in some capacity, however.
I presume that the purpose is for people to record their roasting
experiences with different roasters and beans under different conditions.
We may also want to identify the method of grinding and the method of
preparation.
In design terms, we need to identify the major and minor entities and their
relationships and we need to "normalize" the data. But this is such a
simple task that it can all be done intuitively.
It seems to me that the major entities are "Person" and "Experience". The
minor entities are "Roaster", "Coffee", "Grinder" and "Preparation Method".
All other information would be attributes of these entities.
The attributes of a Person could include ID#, Name, Location, Experience
Level, Personal Comments. We can decide what we want to include and most of
it should be optional. The ID# should be a non-significant numeric and
would serve as the primary key.
The ID for Roaster would be a character string with a length of 6 or 10.
The main attribute would be a description. Other attributes may be applicable.
The same goes for Coffee, Grinder and Preparation Method. We could use a
meaningful abbreviation for the ID and a description of adequate length as
the main attribute.
The most important table is Experience. The whole database exists to
support this table. The attributes of Experience would include a numeric
ID#, Person ID, Coffee ID, Roaster ID, Grinder ID, Preparation Method ID.
All of these IDs would be accessible through pop-up lists. We will have to
determine how we let users add new items to these lists. The descriptions
associated with these IDs should be visible on the screen so that viewers
don't have to remember what the abbreviation stands for.
Unless we restrict choices of these attributes in this way the data will
quickly become a meaningless jumble. I realize that some may object to
these restrictions and some of the objections may be valid. As I mentioned
above, I am not yet clear about the purpose of the database and the design
should accomodate the purpose.
Other attributes of "Experience" would include pertinent roasting
information such as total time, time to first crack, time to second crack,
characteristics (such as acidity, body, etc.), bean temperature,
observations, results, etc. Most of this information should be optional.
We may want to institute a numeric grading system so that we can easily
produce a list of experiences in order by grade. "Grades" would be another
minor entity.
Regarding tools, comparisons to Napster are not really relevant. This will
be a very low-volume application. Napster gets hundreds of thousands of
hits continuously. I think that either
Access/FoxPro/ASP/Javascript/VBscript in an NT environment or
MySQL/PHP/Javascript in a Unix environment would be just fine. We don't
need Oracle or SQL Server.
Don Staricka

2) From: Ken Mary
Let me also speak for the first time, but as "devil's advocate".
Is the proposed use of the database worth everybody's time and trouble? I
have kept detailed roasting logs for my Melitta Aromaroast which I would
gladly contribute, but who else has a Melitta? Possibly the hot air method
would include it, but there are fast and slow roast profiles among these
roasters.
What is the useful lifetime of a roast and review of a particular bean, if
Tom may not restock it for a year or ever? Different estates of a particular
origin (and the same estates harvest to harvest) will have different "cup"
profiles and possibly different roast requirements.
Will we all come up with the same verbal description of aromas and tastes?
If we begin this database, then we must continually maintain it, modify it
where necessary, and assign a monitor to pass judgement on each
contribution.
Will we make this database available to the public (read-only basis)?
I do not mean to kill this idea. It must be approached with caution. Haste
makes waste as we all know. *HOWEVER* we have an opportunity to create a
storehouse of knowledge that exists nowhere else. Are we up to the task?
--
Ken Mary - Aromaroast - whirlyblade - French Press
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3) From: Chris Schmelzer
 
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Yes
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I hope so...
-- 
Chris Schmelzer, M-3
Medical College of Wisconsin
Milwaukee, WI USA

4) From: Bryan Mannos
Another fellow first piper....
First, I do think it's a grand idea!  I was just thinking of doing one
myself only to be surprised and delighted to see that it's being
conceptualized by the list.
Second, The most important piece of this puzzle needs to be a project
leader.  Someone to compile suggestions and incorporate them into running
draft would be nice.  I would assume who ever has the machine resources and
bandwidth to dedicate should most likely be the lead or the one to select
the lead.  I've only been on the list for about a week so I can't make a
suggestion.
I too think this list isn't the place for the database design discussion
regarding the technical issues, but it certainly is regarding it's overall
design that would directly influence the end user.  If someone is willing to
step up to the bar and volunteer to organize this effort then perhaps that
person would set up another forum to discuss the technical issues, in the
meantime, this is the place.
I'd love to contribute whatever I can.  I use Cold Fusion primarily, But I'm
familiar with PHP and ASP as well.  I know the workings of SQL 6.5 and 7.0
also (and Access if thats wasn't shot down).
Please let me know who to talk to :)
Thanks,
Bryan Mannos


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