Good Afternoon List! I'm relatively new to the concept of home roasting. We travel into Mexico and Central America and it is certainly common enough there, but I had never seen it done here in the states. I was impressed when a friend pointed me to several sites with his recommendation of shopping for beans at Sweetmarias. I enjoy coffee in all of its varied forms from standard perk to poured over ice with half and half and a little vanilla syrup. To move me along on this roasting adventure my friend gave us a Freshroast and showed us how easy it was to roast several different beans. We've done it enough now that I no longer fear burning down the house. I've used up the sample of Costa Rica beans that came with the Freshroast and am now overwhelmed by the list of green beans carried by Sweetmarias. I am open to suggestion as to the bean with the most chocolate overtones. I will be roasting them in the Freshroast and brewing them in either a Bodum vacuum or a French Press. So lay it on me; where do I begin? MO |
Maria, First, welcome to the list. I've not tried the Guat this year, but I suspect they will have the chocolate you are looking for. Stay away from the Antigua which is probably a more balanced cup. Also look at Honduran coffee. Usually Tom does pretty good writeups to help you pick the "right one" among the choices in these origins. I just looked at the current offerings and there are two guats that might fit the bill. *Guatemala Fraijanes - Finca Agua Tibia* looks like you would probably get more bittersweet dark chocolate tones and *Guatemala San Marcos -Finca Maria Elisa* looks like you would get a sweeter chocolate flavor. I have not personally tried either of these beans; this is all from Tom's notes. I suggest you try a bit of both and see if you like them. Tom also sells a sampler pack that gives you quite a bit of variety and it is a good place to start. If you go this route, I suggest "supersizing" it to get a pound each, which will be enough for you to experiment around a little. Anyways, this are all suggestions -- YMMV. Steve On 6/27/06, Maria Penon wrote: <Snip> -- Steven Hay hay.steve -AT- gmail.com Barry Paradox: Consider k to be the greatest element of the set of natural numbers whose description require maximum of 50 words: "(k+1) is a natural number which requires more than 50 words to describe it." |
Ditto Welcome to the List and ditto order the 8# sampler. Excellent way to explore different coffees without having to read every single one of Tom's excellent coffee write ups then try to narrow it down. 'Cuz if you do it that way you may find yourself with a stash with 63 different greens totaling over 250#! (Bean there done that before going into stash reduction mode a year or two ago;-) Enjoy the Journey! Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before. From: homeroast-admin [mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Maria Penon Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 2:58 PM Good Afternoon List! I'm relatively new to the concept of home roasting. We travel into Mexico and Central America and it is certainly common enough there, but I had never seen it done here in the states. I was impressed when a friend pointed me to several sites with his recommendation of shopping for beans at Sweetmarias. I enjoy coffee in all of its varied forms from standard perk to poured over ice with half and half and a little vanilla syrup. To move me along on this roasting adventure my friend gave us a Freshroast and showed us how easy it was to roast several different beans. We've done it enough now that I no longer fear burning down the house. I've used up the sample of Costa Rica beans that came with the Freshroast and am now overwhelmed by the list of green beans carried by Sweetmarias. I am open to suggestion as to the bean with the most chocolate overtones. I will be roasting them in the Freshroast and brewing them in either a Bodum vacuum or a French Press. So lay it on me; where do I begin? MO |
Thanks to both Steve and Mike. OK I'm committing to the Guatemalan and then the #8 samples. The way I now drink coffee 8 pounds doesn't seem like it will last long. I suppose to preclude dry periods between deliveries I should settle on a couple quickly and reorder them. Actually I'm hoping that the Guatemalan coffee hits my fancy. I've ordered 2# of it along with the samples. 65 sources Mike? Are they that varied? I can't imagine having that finely honed tastes. But the journey certainly looks exciting. How long would it take you to go through 250 pounds? At my age that sounds a lot like a lifetime supply. :-) Thanks! MO On 6/27/06, Steve Hay wrote: <Snip> |
Maria <Snip> Different Mike here. Yes, Yes and you will. You'll enjoy the journey. Welcome aboard. Mike (just plain) |
From: homeroast-admin [mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Maria Penon Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 8:52 PM <Snip> finely honed tastes. But the journey certainly looks exciting. How long would it take you to go through 250 pounds? At my age that sounds a lot like a lifetime supply. :-) Thanks! <Snip> IIRC correctly stash peaked at only 63 different greens, not 65;-) To me yes coffees are that varied. For instance of the 63 different 17 were different Kona, each with it's own slightly different character. (I'd gone a bit over board that year, forced myself to only stock 7 Konas this year;-) Heck, right now 4 different Sumatras (5 counting aged Sumatra), 4 Panamas, 3 Kenyas, etc etc. Some countries of origin I do only have one representative and a few (very few) none at all anymore. (I quit stocking Costa Rica for instance) It started innocently enough thinking it would be fun and educational to do a World Coffee Tour... But yes, 250# was way too much, a bit over 2 year supply. Down to a much more realistic just over 100# now. Doesn't mean you need to go overboard! I just like variety and very rarely even drink the same cup back to back. Just not my style. Would be like eating the same thing ever meal. Borrrrrrring. Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before. |
On 6/27/06, Maria Penon wrote: <Snip> Maria, Good luck with those coffees! If you are wondering how someone gets 250# of coffee its usually along the lines of Tom consistently getting new coffees that seem so awesome you just have to try them.. Sooner or later the stash is huge.. I've kept under 100# here and I roast for an office full of people, but its amazing how compelling these coffees are once you've "got the bug" Happy roasting, -- Steven Hay hay.steve -AT- gmail.com Barry Paradox: Consider k to be the greatest element of the set of natural numbers whose description require maximum of 50 words: "(k+1) is a natural number which requires more than 50 words to describe it." |
Welcome Maria. The first thing to know when ordering from Tom is that you can't go wrong. All the coffee is great. I find that knowing that takes some pressure off ordering. Secondly I think it would be great if Tom had a search option where you could put in a characteristic like "Chocolate" and get a list of beans matching Chocolate. Jared On 6/27/06, Maria Penon wrote: <Snip> |
On 6/28/06, Jared Andersson wrote: <Snip> Though inferior to what Jared suggests, it is possible to do a crude version of searching by opening a list of coffees, such as the Costa Rica page, then (in Internet Explorer) going to Edit/Find (on this page) and entering "chocolate" or whatever characteristic you are looking for. It's slower than what you suggest, of course, but probably faster than "manually" reading the description of each coffee. I agree that ideally it would be possible to enter a search term and have a prioritized listing of the coffees with that characteristic. Brian |
Great idea Brian. I bet your suggestion would work pretty well. Now I just need to put in a search for a few Tom catch phrases like "huge body, magnificent purity, extraordinary stuff." Jared On 6/28/06, Brian Kamnetz wrote: <Snip> |
Control+F is the keyboard shortcut to search the text on a web page. Handy dandy! TO in VA On 6/28/06, Jared Andersson wrote: <Snip> |
I use a good number of keyboard shortcuts, but it has never occurred to me to check for the "find on this page" shortcut. I use the "find" tool quite a lot, too. Thanks for the suggestion. Brian On 6/28/06, Tom Ogren wrote: <Snip> |
I was actually thinking a few weeks ago that Tom's site would be great if it were XML-ified and made into a the techno-geeks dream. The Google of coffee, so to speak. On 6/28/06, Brian Kamnetz wrote: <Snip> -- Steven Hay hay.steve -AT- gmail.com Barry Paradox: Consider k to be the greatest element of the set of natural numbers whose description require maximum of 50 words: "(k+1) is a natural number which requires more than 50 words to describe it." |
Steve, I second that. I would love to subscribe to the Greens page via = Newsgator, Bloglines or other RSS news reader. So every time a change = is made to the page, the update comes right into the news reader. Of course with the blog that I write I'm a little more geeky than most I = suppose.....and there are probably more than a few readers of this page = wondering what the heck you and I are talking about with RSS and XML!!! = But personally I'd love to see it! Trevor Trevor M. Hall Program Coordinator, MA in Servant-Leadership Viterbo University 900 Viterbo Drive La Crosse, WI 54601 608.796.3701 tmhall Check out our Blog!: www.servantleadershipblog.com = I slept and I dreamed that life was all joy. I woke and saw that life was but service. I served and understood that service was joy! --Rabindranath Tagore From: homeroast-admin on behalf of Steve Hay Sent: Wed 6/28/2006 7:59 PM To: homeroast Subject: Re: +initial post I was actually thinking a few weeks ago that Tom's site would be great = if it were XML-ified and made into a the techno-geeks dream. The Google = of coffee, so to speak. 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Brain, I did that, but I've discovered that degree of roast (for me at least) can drastically alter the flavor. I read Tom's cupping reports and then take a sip. Nope... I didn't roast mine right because I don't taste some of what Tom describes. So I should have been more consistent and said "what coffee roasted to what degree yeilds the most chocolate flavor?" But I've discovered that a good piece of quality chocolate munched while sipping my last attempt (after it rested and I didn't) turns out to be about the way I had hoped. Thanks for the lead though. And off topic I suppose would be the fact that I'm a Firefox fan not at all an IE fan. MO On 6/28/06, Brian Kamnetz wrote: <Snip> |
Maria, For chocolatey tones, I'd recommend the La Minita (Costa Rica), which has some really nice milk chocolate undercurrent up to C+/FC, then more bittersweet chocolate overtones past FC. Both effects are very nice. Having tried about a half dozen roasts of this one...from just past City to Full City plus, my favorite so far has been the batch I pulled just prior to the first snaps of second crack. Currently, I'm enjoying my second favorite roast of this bean, which went about a dozen snaps into second before I dumped my Poppery II. You are right that the degree of roast drastically affects the flavor. To further complicate matters, the temperature over the time spent getting to the finished roast level also affects flavor greatly. For examply, two "Full City" batches of the same bean will taste quite different if one batch spends one minute between 1st and 2nd, while the other spends four minutes. I am firmly convinced that the ability to control the temperature is critical to my mission toward consistent coffee nirvana. I've seen the land of bean-bliss in the past several months (since I started roasting), but it was only by luck that I happened on roast perfection. Without temperature control, my results were not really repeatable. Some Ethiopians can have pretty intense chocolate notes as well. Have fun! TO in VA On 6/30/06, Maria Penon wrote: <Snip> |
Well after spending the morning in the archives I finally figured out C+/FC :-) I also found that my first roasted coffee is refereed to as CRLM! So now I'm equipped to C+/FC/CRLM and enjoy life! I'm a little hesitant to try the Africans based on the fact that most of the junk served at Starbucks is African and I really don't care for it. After looking at Tom's chart of degree of roast (part of the C+/FC search results) I think Starbucks would add one more black/oily/smelly square below the last picture. I just cannot drink that kind of coffee. So I'm inclined to stick with Central American beans until I work up nerve enough to venture into espresso. MO On 6/30/06, Tom Ogren wrote: <Snip> |
Suggest your next order include an 8# sampler as a way of sampling a wide range of different coffees. Actually the samplers are also fun no matter how long you've roasted no matter how many coffees you've tried. Box arrives with my selected greens plus 8# variety selected by Tom of who knows what but it'll be good high quality representative of wherever they're from, make opening the box kind of like Christmas! Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before. From: homeroast-admin [mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Maria Penon Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 9:30 AM Well after spending the morning in the archives I finally figured out C+/FC :-) I also found that my first roasted coffee is refereed to as CRLM! So now I'm equipped to C+/FC/CRLM and enjoy life! I'm a little hesitant to try the Africans based on the fact that most of the junk served at Starbucks is African and I really don't care for it. After looking at Tom's chart of degree of roast (part of the C+/FC search results) I think Starbucks would add one more black/oily/smelly square below the last picture. I just cannot drink that kind of coffee. So I'm inclined to stick with Central American beans until I work up nerve enough to venture into espresso. MO On 6/30/06, Tom Ogren wrote: Maria, For chocolatey tones, I'd recommend the La Minita (Costa Rica), which has some really nice milk chocolate undercurrent up to C+/FC, then more bittersweet chocolate overtones past FC. Both effects are very nice. Having tried about a half dozen roasts of this one...from just past City to Full City plus, my favorite so far has been the batch I pulled just prior to the first snaps of second crack. Currently, I'm enjoying my second favorite roast of this bean, which went about a dozen snaps into second before I dumped my Poppery II. You are right that the degree of roast drastically affects the flavor. To further complicate matters, the temperature over the time spent getting to the finished roast level also affects flavor greatly. For examply, two "Full City" batches of the same bean will taste quite different if one batch spends one minute between 1st and 2nd, while the other spends four minutes. I am firmly convinced that the ability to control the temperature is critical to my mission toward consistent coffee nirvana. I've seen the land of bean-bliss in the past several months (since I started roasting), but it was only by luck that I happened on roast perfection. Without temperature control, my results were not really repeatable. Some Ethiopians can have pretty intense chocolate notes as well. Have fun! TO in VA On 6/30/06, Maria Penon < mopenon > wrote: Brain, I did that, but I've discovered that degree of roast (for me at least) can drastically alter the flavor. I read Tom's cupping reports and then take a sip. Nope... I didn't roast mine right because I don't taste some of what Tom describes. So I should have been more consistent and said "what coffee roasted to what degree yeilds the most chocolate flavor?" But I've discovered that a good piece of quality chocolate munched while sipping my last attempt (after it rested and I didn't) turns out to be about the way I had hoped. Thanks for the lead though. And off topic I suppose would be the fact that I'm a Firefox fan not at all an IE fan. MO On 6/28/06, Brian Kamnetz < bkamnetz > wrote: On 6/28/06, Jared Andersson wrote: > Welcome Maria. The first thing to know when ordering from Tom is that you > can't go wrong. All the coffee is great. I find that knowing that takes > some pressure off ordering. Secondly I think it would be great if Tom had a > search option where you could put in a characteristic like "Chocolate" and > get a list of beans matching Chocolate. Jared > Though inferior to what Jared suggests, it is possible to do a crude version of searching by opening a list of coffees, such as the Costa Rica page, then (in Internet Explorer) going to Edit/Find (on this page) and entering "chocolate" or whatever characteristic you are looking for. It's slower than what you suggest, of course, but probably faster than "manually" reading the description of each coffee. I agree that ideally it would be possible to enter a search term and have a prioritized listing of the coffees with that characteristic. Brian |
Hello Maria, You can’t really go wrong with the Centrals, they are great coffees = and most taste exactly like one would expect a really great coffee to taste. I roasted the Panama auction winner Wednesday evening so I would have the = time to savor it over the long holiday weekend. After I received the auction winners, Tom did what he always does and = listed some new lots of my favorites. I couldn't resist the new Guats and the = newly added Kona. Hawaii isn't exactly in Central America, but it is another = of the *almost* everyone enjoys it kinds of coffees. Glad to see you are learning the lingo and enjoying the coffee. The = people who hang out here are not inclined to go back now that we have = discovered the BEST! Terry |
Maria, Yea, it does take a while to sort through the alphabet soup, The Africans do have a different taste, but home roasted they'll be an entirely different coffee than you got at *$$s. Give them a try, maybe some wet processed & dry processed so you can make that comparison too. Or get a sampler pack with your orders. So far, the only coffees I really didn't like have been Monsooned Malabar & Aged Sumatra. The rest were great coffees, some I'd probably not buy again because of the many other choices that I find preferable, but I wouldn't be upset to find them as part of a sampler pack. --MikeW On 7/1/06, Maria Penon wrote: <Snip> -- "There is nothing new under the sun but there are lots of old things we don't know." -- Ambrose Bierce |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. I'm enjoying Ethiopian Harrars as a blend with Central American coffees = in my FrPress. It has an "upper register" that goes well with them. = Maybe that's a way you could sneak up on liking African coffees. ;<) Tom in GA |
Hi, MO- Maintain your fear of torching your domicile. It's always a good attitude. Whenever your coffee adventures turn incendiary, go outside on the porch or in a [Metal] roasting shed! What's this? -Don't really like the Africans? Hello! That's Haile Selassie of you- it's where it all began. The dancing goats, as one story goes. Cheers -RayO, aka Opa! "You have to know the rules to be able to break the rules..." - -Virgil Fox |
--Apple-Mail-16--392326992 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset -ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Actually, I thought the dancing goats were in Yemen--across the Red Sea from Africa. On Jul 2, 2006, at 10:36 AM, raymanowen wrote: <Snip> Sandy Andina www.sandyandina.com --Apple-Mail-16--392326992 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset O-8859-1 Actually, I thought the dancing = goats were in Yemen--across the Red Sea from Africa. On Jul = 2, 2006, at 10:36 AM, raymanowen = wrote: |
Maybe they were dancing the Backstroke? What do I know? - ro On 7/2/06, Sandy Andina wrote: <Snip> -- "When the theme hits the bass, I dance the Jig!" - -Virgil Fox at the Wichita WurliTzer |
Nope, the story is that the origin of coffee is from Ethiopia and from there to Yemen. Steve On 7/2/06, Sandy Andina wrote: <Snip> |
Maria Penon wrote: "I'm a little hesitant to try the Africans based on the fact that most of the junk served at Starbucks is African and I really don't care for it..." Maria, Staying away from the African coffees would be a real mistake in this coffee lover's opinion. These are some of the most complex and beautiful coffees in the world. While I love a nice balanced, delicate Central American coffee also (especially in the hotter weather), sometimes I just gotta-have-a-Kenya. I feel that Kenyan coffee can be some of the most approachable coffee available (many would agree with this I suspect). Some Kenyas can be overpowering with their bright acidity or radical fruity qualities, while other Kenyas are balanced and smooth with very subtle characteristics. If you are gravitating towards the Centrals, there's certainly nothing wrong with that! Great coffees are grown worldwide. If you enjoy the Centrals, but are still willing to travel the globe a bit, I would highly recommend getting your hands on some Kenya Auction Lot 405. This one is a smooth, balanced mellow coffee. I feel confident saying that most people who like coffee would find this coffee to be very approachable. If you shy away from the dramatic, odd, or "interesting" coffee flavors...the bright berries and rich, earthy flavors typical of many non-Central American coffees, then the 405 would be a great introduction to African coffee. Of the many coffees I've shared with my family and friends over the past several months, the Kenya 405 has proven to be the most consistently popular. It is not striking and powerful like many East African coffees can be, but it holds that mild and mellow Kenya quality that makes people smile...This one is just a really nice, friendly cup of coffee. TO in VA On 7/3/06, Steven Sobel wrote: <Snip> |
Tom, You are right of course. I guess I could have phrased it better. More like "Until I know what I'm doing I'm sticking with what I think I can do well and staying away from those complex flavors." I'll get there if the Lord lets me live long enough. MO in TX On 7/4/06, Tom Ogren wrote: <Snip> |
Maria, I'm fairly new to the homeroasting obsession too. I use a hot air popper (PopperyII) with no temperature control. I think one of the reasons I'm so fond of the Kenya 405 is that it has been the most forgiving bean I have roasted. I have yet to do a roast that wasn't really nice. I can't say the same for most of the other beans I have tried (about twenty different ones). Actually, some of the Centrals have proven tricky for me to find the sweet spot. The 405 has a huge sweet spot (or at least a large window of tastiness!) I do love that CRLM though! It too is forgiving bean and yields good flavor at a variety of roast levels. My favorite of the La Minita was a C+ (just before second crack was about to start). At that level (roasted with my PopperyII, also a fluid bed type roaster like the Freshroast) I noted several of the same flavors Tom mentioned in his description of the coffee. I hope you found the same with yours. This morning I'm drinking some City+ Kenya Gaturine Peaberry (Auction Lot 705)...Screaming bright lemony madness. This one might be a bit intense even for my crazy tastes. I'm typing this email because I can't talk right now. You see, the Gaturine has ripped my tongue out!! Aaaaah what I wouldn't give for some 405! Cheers! ~TO in VA On 7/5/06, Maria Penon wrote: <Snip> |
Maria, I, too, love the Central American coffees. However, the Africans have been wonderful as well. If I were to offer you a recomendation, it would be to try the Kenya Gethumbwini or Uganda Bugisu. The Bugisu has an earthy bold flavor that I love. The Gethumbwini is simply fantastic. I can't think of the flavors that stand out, but it simply is one of the best Kenyas I've had and it scored over a 90 on Tom's scale. Just about any coffee that scores over 90 is worth trying. Wes On 7/5/06, Tom Ogren wrote: <Snip> |
MO, If you have an appreciative audience who will enjoy whatever you serve, your confidence will grow in selection and roasting methods. I had the pleasure this past weekend to serve my wife and in-laws some home roast and some commercial wine alongside some homemade stuff. All three liked everything w/o picking out any flavors or commenting on profiles. I usually pick up 25-30% of what a decent judge notices. But having support in our education is truly a blessing. As novices, we have the advantage of a list with generous and knowledgable people and access to great product. It seems to me that we have all come to this love affair after having our hearts broken through diesel fuel passed off as house coffee from that diner in the middle of the Arizona desert or those early flirtations with Boone's Farm. Belaboring the point still further, we have a holding community to guide us and share with us virtually - and hopefully in the flesh - as time goes on. There will be time enough, coffees enough and people with share them with. There are no shortage of volunteers for either free coffee or free wine :) Michael Holland Los Angeles City Archives VP, Cellarmasters |
On 7/4/06, Maria Penon wrote: <Snip> Maria - Where'bouts in TX are you? There are some active homeroasters scattered all over the state. Safe Journeys and Sweet Music Justin Marquez (Snyder, TX) |
Michael, I have an appreciative audience, but most of my friends also are friends with the two people who got me started roasting and I have a very long way to go before catching up with John Abbott, who was a long time list member, and who is both my coffee mentor and my pastor at the church we attend. My other mentor is Corinne Higbee who is a teacher/biologist and very good home roaster. But I try hard to not be intimidated but learn from those two and both of them rave about my coffee so I'm comfortable. MO On 7/5/06, Michael Holland wrote: <Snip> |
Maria, If you are learning from John Abbott, I'm sure you already know you are learning from the best. Please tell John we said hello and wish him = nothing but the very best. Terry |
Terry, I called John and gave him your message. He said (but I believe you) that he's a long way from the best, just passionate; and to say he's glad you've not been blown away yet in Florida. It turns out that my other mentor (Corinne Higbee) is also a student of John's so I'm looking forward to learning to talk the talk and roast the roast like those two. MO On 7/5/06, javafool wrote: <Snip> |