miKe,
I'm no cook, but I'd like to try the scones in August when (I hope
anyway) I will have a visitor. (I also want to turn my friend on to
Turkish coffee, and scones might be the perfect side.)
But there are two parts of the recipe that do not describe what needs
to be done, but rather call upon a person's knowledge of cooking
jargon. Can you tell me what the following two things mean?
1. Cut in the butter - Is this different from stirring in? Or does it
simply mean that a person should not use the mixer?
And:
Stir the sour cream mixture and egg into the flour mixture until just
moistened. - What is "just moistened"?
Thanks,
Brian
On 7/7/06, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>

From allrecipes.com cooking glossary:
cut in
To mix a solid, cold fat (such as butter or shortening) with dry ingredients
(such as a flour mixture) until the combination is in the form of small
particles. This technique can be achieved by using a PASTRY BLENDER, two
knives, a fork or fingers (which must be cool so as not to melt the fat). A
FOOD PROCESSOR fitted with a metal blade does an excellent job of cutting
fat into dry ingredients, providing the mixture is not overworked into a
paste. 
Another method I've read about but haven't tried is coarse grating/shredding
hard frozen
Butter into the flour mixture and simply mixing. 
Didn't find a direct reference for "just moistened". Basically means don't
over mix or they'll end up tough! (One reason many homemade pie crusts turn
out tough) To me it means mix just until liquid added is fully incorporated
with flour mixture.
miKe
<Snip>

Great, thanks, miKe.
Brian
On 7/7/06, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>

--Apple-Mail-27-42070021
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Trick is to keep the fat cold and solid enough that when incorporated  
into the flour the resulting mixture looks like small peas or gravel.
On Jul 7, 2006, at 12:52 PM, miKe mcKoffee wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
--Apple-Mail-27-42070021
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charsetO-8859-1
Trick is to keep the fat cold =
and solid enough that when incorporated into the flour the resulting =
mixture looks like small peas or gravel.
On Jul 7, 2006, at =
12:52 PM, miKe mcKoffee wrote:
From allrecipes.com cooking glossary:
cut =
inTo mix a solid, cold fat (such as butter or =
shortening) with dry ingredients(such as a =
flour mixture) until the combination is in the form of smallparticles. This technique can be achieved by using a =
PASTRY BLENDER, twoknives, a fork or fingers =
(which must be cool so as not to melt the fat). AFOOD PROCESSOR fitted with a metal blade does an =
excellent job of cuttingfat into dry =
ingredients, providing the mixture is not overworked into apaste. 
Another =
method I've read about but haven't tried is coarse =
grating/shreddinghard frozenButter into the flour mixture and simply =
mixing. 
Didn't =
find a direct reference for "just moistened". Basically means =
don'tover mix or they'll end up =
tough! (One reason many homemade pie crusts turnout tough) To me it means mix just until liquid =
added is fully incorporatedwith flour =
mixture.
miKe
 From: homeroast-admin=
s.sweetmarias.com [mailto:homeroast-adm=
in] On Behalf Of Brian =
KamnetzSent: Friday, July 07, 2006 =
10:11 AM
miKe,
I'm no cook, but I'd like to try =
the scones in August when (I hopeanyway) I =
will have a visitor. (I also want to turn my friend on toTurkish coffee, and scones might be the perfect =
side.)
But there are two parts of the recipe that do not =
describe what needsto be done, but rather call =
upon a person's knowledge of cookingjargon. Can =
you tell me what the following two things mean?
1. Cut =
in the butter - Is this different from stirring in? Or does itsimply mean that a person should not use the =
mixer?
And:
Stir the sour cream mixture and =
egg into the flour mixture until just
Brian
On 7/7/06, miKe mcKoffee <mcKona> =
wrote: Debi's been =
after me to make some scones instead of  biscotti so I did. First time making scones. =
homeroast mailing listhttp://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroastTo change your personal list settings (digest =
options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings
 
homeroast mailing listhttp://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroastTo change your personal list settings (digest =
options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings =
  
=
--Apple-Mail-27-42070021--

Sounds like I would have to crank the AC a bit, cooler than the 84 or
85 I usually keep the house....
Brian
On 7/7/06, Sandy Andina  wrote:
<Snip>

It sounds like a touch of vanilla might be a good addition to this =
recipe?
Carol does NOT like scones, but I may have to give this a try and see if =
she
changes her mind. Now to buy a zesty orange from the Fresh Market. In =
the
spring I could just go next door and have all I could carry home.
I did roast 8 ounces of the new Guatemala PB about an hour ago. Tomorrow =
or
Sunday it should be rested enough to be exceptional. I tried the Yirg DP
after 30 hours and didn't care for it at all. 24 hours later it was =
great!
What a difference a day can make.
Terry

<Snip>
In other words  :-)
To hold its finished shape, the dough consistency has to be very stiff,
somewhere between a bread dough and a muffin batter. Also, the dough is not
worked, the wet and dry portions are just brought together so the gluten
will not develop and make it tough to chew.
--

On Jul 7, 2006, at 2:27 pm, Brian Kamnetz wrote:
<Snip>
Definitely invest in a pastry blender (and don't even think about  
using your fingers). I like the kind that are made by cutting slots  
in a strip of metal and then bending over the the metal into  
blades***. It's much stiffer than the wire kind and allows you to cut  
the fat in much more quickly. If the butter is cold and you work  
quickly, 85 degrees shouldn't be a problem, given the amount of time  
it takes to get scones in the oven.
John Blumel
*** Get this kind,
   http://www.kitchen-classics.com/pastry.htmnot this kind,
   http://www.betterbaking.com/viewArticle.php?article_idDdespite what the second one says in its description. Then again, this  
might be a religious issue.

John you nailed it!
I wrote a reply and discarded three times.  John's advice as to what to use,
which product to buy, and the 85 degree room are right on the money...
Thanks,
Brett Mason
On 7/7/06, John Blumel  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Regards,
Brett Mason
HomeRoast
   Zassman

John,
I haven't been able to find any "kitchen" specialty stores here in
Columbia. So as far as I know, that leaves Walmart, Sears, Kmart,
Target, etc. Any suggestions of who might tend to carry higher quality
materials such as the pastry blender you recommended? (Maybe I should
just wait until I am in Madison later this month -- I know where the
kitchen specialty store is there....)
Thanks for any suggestions.
Brian
On 7/7/06, John Blumel  wrote:
<Snip>

On Jul 7, 2006, at 3:36 pm, Brian Kamnetz wrote:
<Snip>
Well, I've had mine for so long that I don't even remember where I  
got it. I would guess most places that carry a reasonable selection  
of kitchen stuff would probably have them, but I can't say for sure.  
But I don't think it's at all an exotic item that would be hard to find.
John Blumel

John and others,
Even though I don't cook, I often look at mixers and am tempted to get
one, because I have the insane idea that someday I will indeed start
cooking and then I will need one. I see the Kitchen Aide mixers and
they have a hook on them that I recall my mother talking about many
years ago. Is that what the hook attachments on the mixers are for,
blending butter into flour etc?
Also, I see other brands of mixers with characteristics that
ostensibly are similar to the Kitchen Aides, but are cheaper. Any
opinions on comparitive values of the various brands of heavy-duty
mixers?
Thanks again,
Brian
On 7/7/06, John Blumel  wrote:
<Snip>

The hook is for kneading the dough.  This is considerably different from
cutting in the butter.  I do wonder if a normal blade on low would cut in
the butter properly - DON'T OVER-DO it though....
Brett
On 7/7/06, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Regards,
Brett Mason
HomeRoast
   Zassman

On Jul 7, 2006, at 3:58 pm, Brett Mason wrote:
<Snip>
Kneading bread dough, that is. I think I may have seen this (cutting  
butter in) done on a cooking show at some point (or maybe it was  
cookie dough, which isn't the same) but I think the cleanup would  
take longer than it would take to cut it in by hand. Of course, if  
someone else is in charge of the cleanup...
John Blumel

Usually I have to do my own clean up.  After that, my wife follows me in,
and then cleans up again...  It's a husband thing (picking up most of the
big pieces....)
Time for coffee for me!
Brett
On 7/7/06, John Blumel  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Regards,
Brett Mason
HomeRoast
   Zassman

<Snip>
I've used the KitcheAid with not the dough hook or whisk but the one
inbetween for cutting with usually good but mixed results. Seems to work
best with butter slightly warmer than fridge but not up to room temp.
Advantage is you can let it do it's thing and multi-task cutting up fat
dried blueberries or whatever. Disadvantage is you can let it do it's thing
and multi-task and the stupid KitchenAid doesn't know when to stop so it's
EASY to Over-Do it! Hence mixed results:-) 
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.

A blender is superior for this.
The beaters in a mixer are designed to aerate a batter, to incorporate air
in it to make it light.
This is not what you want for scones, biscuits or pie dough. You want to cut
the butter into small pieces that are completely surrounded by flour.Roll it
out & you flatten the balls of butter, making sheets. When baked, the
moisture in the butter expands causing the layers of dough to separate.
And for bread dough the idea is to work the dough to make tough gluten. Then
the leavening agent (yeast or baking soda) forms bubbles of gas. The
glutinous dough stretches, so it's like the yeast is blowing bubbles of
dough. The trapped gas further expands during baking.
On 7/7/06, Brett Mason  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"There is nothing new under the sun but there are lots of old things we
don't know." --  Ambrose Bierce

Ooops. Not blender,  Imeant foof processor. The blender might be OK, but the
batch size would be way too small!
On 7/7/06, Michael Wascher  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"There is nothing new under the sun but there are lots of old things we
don't know." --  Ambrose Bierce

Man I got lots of kitchen gadgets but got to get me one of them 'foof
processors':-) What's a foof anyway and why does it need processing...
miKe
	From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Michael Wascher
	Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 4:32 PM
	
	Ooops. Not blender,  Imeant foof processor. The blender might be OK,
but the batch size would be way too small!

 ever have one of those days?!  ;)
On 7/7/06, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"There is nothing new under the sun but there are lots of old things we
don't know." --  Ambrose Bierce

Hi -
Newbie lurker here. Had to chime in.
Lot's of good advice here. Even better than a blender is any food 
processor. It's the same principle with biscuits, or even pie crust. 
Keep your ingredients as cold as possible, 'cut' the butter into your 
mixed (and I guess preferably sifted - I'm lazy, and never sift) dry 
ingredients until it all ends up sorta like corn meal. Over mixing will 
give you hockey pucks.
But if you don't have a food processor (or blender), just get this:   http://tinyurl.com/r346hI've never found any scones that I've purchased to be even /half/ as 
good as homemade. Besides, anything close is going to cost more for one 
than it costs me to make a whole recipe. I love adding different 
ingredients - but biscotti is something I /really/ make practically in 
my sleep. I reinvent them every time I make a new batch!
Lynne
<Snip>

Please take this mostly as an observation and not a inducement to 
argue :)  I have been eating and making scones for years, mostly from 
"old" recipes I find.  Between that and some wonderful scones eating 
in Scotland and England, one big thing I have noticed is that all of 
these recipes that are being discussed have been majorly Americanized 
into a sweet, light, fluffy dessert like things.  Not that they are 
not good, but I just don't see them as "scones".  All the really 
great scones I have had wow you with their simplicity and 
understatement.  Lots of butter, fresh flour, a touch a sugar.  For 
all their romantic conjurations , "real" scones are not a lot more 
than what we think of as crumbly biscuits (again not light as air, 
buttermilk, gummy  biscuits) and in my book, more savory then 
sweet.  So, I would not be surprised if some of the "I don't like 
scones" comes from tasting mediocre real ones.  These others "a touch 
of vanilla" seem almost cookie like.
But as I have said with coffee, eat and drink what you enjoy - that 
is the most important thing :-)
Aside from the above, working the butter in with your hands works 
great once you have the technique down.  You can feel when it is 
done.  As for "just moist, basically, you don't want to knead the 
dough. 100% homogeneity is not needed.  Spots of butter are more than 
acceptable, that is what you want.  Kneading develops the gluten and 
makes it more bread like and as noted, tough.
At 12:02 7/7/2006, you wrote:
<Snip>
John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

Hence, the term......... "A scone's throw"  and many have traveled some 
distance with a bite out of their side.
r.

By golly, John, I think you hit the nail right on the head. True scones =
are
absolutely boring to some (like my wife) and that simplicity is exactly =
what
is so appealing to others. About a year ago I was in Yoder's Restaurant =
and
the soup of the day was something like flour soup. The waitress was kind
enough to bring a small sample and it was like flour, butter, cream and =
that
was about it. She said they always sold out when they served it but this
soup was not for everyone. I ordered something else but was glad I had =
the
opportunity to try something different.
True scones - you may have mine but the coffee we can share and enjoy!
Best,
Terry

--Apple-Mail-39-136536268
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My Nova Scotian friend makes the best scones I've ever had--using  
just flour, water, sugar, butter, baking powder and (occasionally,  
when she has them on hand) currants. Period.
On Jul 8, 2006, at 10:05 AM, Alchemist John wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
--Apple-Mail-39-136536268
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	charsetO-8859-1
My Nova Scotian friend makes the =
best scones I've ever had--using just flour, water, sugar, butter, =
baking powder and (occasionally, when she has them on hand) currants. =
Period. 
On Jul 8, 2006, at 10:05 AM, Alchemist John =
wrote:
Please take this mostly as an =
observation and not a inducement to argue :)  I have been eating and making =
scones for years, mostly from "old" recipes I find.  Between that and some =
wonderful scones eating in Scotland and England, one big thing I have =
noticed is that all of these recipes that are being discussed have been =
majorly Americanized into a sweet, light, fluffy dessert like =
things.  Not that they =
are not good, but I just don't see them as "scones".  rsonalsettings =
  
=
--Apple-Mail-39-136536268--

Alchemist John,
Could you be so kind as to post one of your scones recipes? And, any
suggestions of coffees that go particularly well with your scones?
Thanks,
Brian
PS: Found a "kitchen things" store in the yellow pages under
"Gourmet", and stopped by today, and was delighted to find a pastry
blender of the type recommended by John Blumel.
On 7/8/06, Alchemist John  wrote:
<Snip>

FYI you can just cut the butter in with your hands without using a pastry
blender. Make sure it's very cold and then use your fingers to crumble it up
throughout the flour. The mix should look like course crumbs. If you feel
that it's getting warm pop it back into the fridge for five or so minutes to
cool again. You don't "need" a pastry blender although they are nice.

I prefer fingers, cleanup is easier.
On 7/8/06, beth a. montgomery  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"There is nothing new under the sun but there are lots of old things we
don't know." --  Ambrose Bierce

Traditional Milk Scones
2-2.5 cups flour (I use fresh ground winter white wheat)
1 t baking soda & 2 t cream of tartar OR
1 T baking powder
1/2 t salt or to taste
1 T sugar (optional)
5 T butter, chilled
3/4 milk or cream
Mix the flour and ONE of the leavenings, plus the other dry 
ingredients.  The first mixture will give a softer flavor to the 
scone but baking powder will also work.  Cut the chilled butter 
in.  Add the milk or cream and stir until incorporated.  I was 
actually taught to barely mix it, turn it onto a counter, pat it out 
(ungainly mess) and "fold" it 13 times.  It is ALMOST kneading, but 
not really, but makes very nice layers.  Make the final thickness 3/4 
- 1" and round.  Place on a greased baking pan and cut deeply through 
the center into 8 pieces (pizza like).  Bake in a preheated 450 F 
oven 10-13 minutes, until golden brown.  I like to top them with 
butter when they come out.
Personally, I like a deep brooding Sumatra or other Indonesian to go 
with scones and the like.
BTW, one other variation has 2 eggs (and a little extra flour) if you 
use cream, and it seems dried fruit is also "traditional".
At 15:29 7/8/2006, you wrote:
<Snip>
John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

--Apple-Mail-44-154133662
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Your hands may be too warm. I've seen people use a pair of chilled  
knives in the absence of a pastry blender.
On Jul 8, 2006, at 7:23 PM, beth a. montgomery wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
--Apple-Mail-44-154133662
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charsetO-8859-1
Your hands may be too warm. I've =
seen people use a pair of chilled knives in the absence of a pastry =
blender.
On Jul 8, 2006, at 7:23 PM, beth a. montgomery =
wrote:
FYI you can just cut the butter =
in with your hands without using a pastryblender. =
Make sure it's very cold and then use your fingers to crumble it =
upthroughout the flour. The mix should look like =
course crumbs. If you feelthat it's =
getting warm pop it back into the fridge for five or so minutes =
tocool again. You don't "need" a pastry blender =
although they are nice.
-----Original =
Message-----From: homeroast-admin=
s.sweetmarias.com[mailto:homeroast-adm=
in] On Behalf Of John BlumelSent: Friday, July 07, 2006 4:14 PMTo: homeroast=
s.comSubject: Re: OT Scones >Re: =
+To go with coffee, not biscotti
On Jul 7, 2006, at 3:58 pm, =
Brett Mason wrote:The hook is =
for kneading the dough.  =
This is considerably different  from =
cutting in the butter.  I =
do wonder if a normal blade on low  would =
cut in the butter properly - DON'T OVER-DO it though.... =
Kneading bread dough, that is. I think I may have =
seen this (cutting  butter =
in) done on a cooking show at some point (or maybe it was  cookie =
dough, which isn't the same) but I think the cleanup would  take =
longer than it would take to cut it in by hand. Of course, if  someone =
else is in charge of the cleanup...
John Blumel
homeroast mailing listhttp://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroastTo change your personal list settings (digest =
options, vacations,unsvbscribes) go =
tohttp://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings
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found in this incoming message.Checked by =
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Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 7/7/2006
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found in this outgoing message.Checked by =
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Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 7/7/2006
homeroast mailing listhttp://li=sts.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroastTo change your personal list settings (digest =
options, vacations, unsvbscribes) go to http://=sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings =
  
=
--Apple-Mail-44-154133662--

Country cooks say you should just use just your fingers when mixing biscuit
or pie dough, because your fingers are cooler than the rest of your hand.
A friend who is a chef was classically trained. The French pastry chef  that
taught him said to just use the palms to press the dough against the pastry
board, because the fingers are too hot.
So, whatever works for you!
On 7/8/06, Sandy Andina  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"There is nothing new under the sun but there are lots of old things we
don't know." --  Ambrose Bierce

Alchemist John,
Thanks for the recipe. It will be interesting to me to make the recipe
miKe posted and also this one and have the comparison.
Just to be sure, "3/4 milk" is 3/4 cup, right?
Brian
On 7/8/06, Alchemist John  wrote:
<Snip>

Nope three quarters of a milk :P
Yes, 3/4 of a cup of milk.
At 15:06 7/9/2006, you wrote:
<Snip>
John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

3/4 is milk.
1/4 is of unknown origin...
On 7/9/06, Alchemist John  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Regards,
Brett Mason
HomeRoast
   Zassman

	From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Brett Mason
	Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 4:29 PM
	
<Snip>
Of course we know the origin of that 1/4c, scones be from Scotland. But that
1/4c of Scottish origin doesn't go in with the scones, it's consumed while
making them:-)
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.

Survey says-
Good: Kitchen Aid
Ungood: other -cheaper/ expensiver/ inferior- brands of mixers
I 'splain you-
a.)- Purchase One (1) Kitchen Aid mixer,   or
b.)- Purchase Six (6) Other -cheaper/ expensiver/ inferior- mixers,
      and wish you had gone with plan a.)-
c.)- Put time and resources into Espresso, a Best Use of Water-
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
Working on Plan c' -Horse!

I don't know. Yes I have and have had no problems with 5qt my Kitchen Aid.
(Artisan Model) OTH my sister has burned up two of the heavier duty motor
6qt Kitchen Aids, double bread/roll batches one too many times more than
once:-) (all replaced no charge)
I believe the Hobart bad boys considered the Rolls Royce counter top mixer
and are far more durable than Kitchen Aids (yeah, mucho more expensive too
of course)
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
	From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of
raymanowen
	Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 4:58 PM
	To: homeroast
	Subject: Re: OT Scones >Re: +To go with coffee, not biscotti
	
	Survey says-
	
	Good: Kitchen Aid
	
	Ungood: other -cheaper/ expensiver/ inferior- brands of mixers 
	
	I 'splain you- 
	a.)- Purchase One (1) Kitchen Aid mixer,   or
	b.)- Purchase Six (6) Other -cheaper/ expensiver/ inferior- mixers,
	      and wish you had gone with plan a.)-
	c.)- Put time and resources into Espresso, a Best Use of Water- 
	
	Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
	
	Working on Plan c' -Horse!

Not to mention you can swap them out if they break at Williams-Sonoma =
(even outs-side of manufacturer warranty).
 
later,
jason
From: homeroast-admin on behalf of =
raymanowen
Sent: Sun 7/9/2006 7:58 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: OT Scones >Re: +To go with coffee, not biscotti
Survey says-
Good: Kitchen Aid
Ungood: other -cheaper/ expensiver/ inferior- brands of mixers 
I 'splain you- 
a.)- Purchase One (1) Kitchen Aid mixer,   or
b.)- Purchase Six (6) Other -cheaper/ expensiver/ inferior- mixers,
      and wish you had gone with plan a.)-
c.)- Put time and resources into Espresso, a Best Use of Water- 
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
Working on Plan c' -Horse!
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I have a 25 year old Kitchenaid that was made by Hobart before they sold the 
brand to Whirlpool.  (The first thing Whirlpool did was to figure out how to 
make it cheaper such as using cast plastic gears instead of cut steel ones.) 
It is built with the same materials and quality as the commercial Hobart 
mixers.  It has a 265 watt motor.  About 5 years ago, I decided to buy one 
of the new "heavy duty Pro" models that have 525 watt motors.  The first 
thing I noticed was the much louder noise coming from the gear train.  The 
mixer lasted about 2 weeks before the motor burned up mixing a bread recipe 
that I had made hundreds of times with the smaller Hobart made unit.  They 
replaced it under warrantee and I thought that maybe I just got a bad one. 
I tried making the same dough again and the motor began to smoke.  I 
finished the bread by hand and sold the mixer on eBay.  I bought a Bosch 
mixer and it has tons of power It can mix up 11 pounds of very heavy dough 
such as bagel dough without a hint of a problem.  In fact, it seems to do 
better with a larger load.  I bought the grinder attachment for it because I 
grind a lot of meat for homemade sausages and it performs better than most 
dedicated grinders that I have seen.  If all you do is light duty mixing 
like cake batters, the KA is an excellent mixer but if you want to do heavy 
tasks I highly recommend the Bosch.  If you really want the KA, I would look 
for an older used one made by Hobart on eBay.  Viking makes a nice looking 
new mixer, but I don't know how heavy duty it is.  I know being a Viking, it 
will be expensive.  The small Hobart countertop model is an excellent mixer 
but it lists for about $1700 and is not rated for heavy doughs.
Mike Chester

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Kitchen Aid=Holy Grail of mixers. For my adult Bat Mitzvah, my  
husband gave me a Montblanc fountain pen but my mom gave me a 5-qt.  
Kitchen Aid. But as far as food processors go, it's Cuisinart all the  
way. Moved up from a 7-cupper to an 11-cupper, but also a Mini-Prep  
for smaller chopping jobs. However, all things being equal, nothing  
works quite as well as a skilled hand and a big honkin' sharp chef's  
knife, IMHO.
On Jul 9, 2006, at 6:58 PM, raymanowen wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
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Kitchen Aid=Holy Grail of =
mixers. For my adult Bat Mitzvah, my husband gave me a Montblanc =
fountain pen but my mom gave me a 5-qt. Kitchen Aid. But as far as food =
processors go, it's Cuisinart all the way. Moved up from a 7-cupper to =
an 11-cupper, but also a Mini-Prep for smaller chopping jobs. However, =
all things being equal, nothing works quite as well as a skilled hand =
and a big honkin' sharp chef's knife, IMHO.
On Jul 9, 2006, =
at 6:58 PM, raymanowen =
wrote:
Survey =
says-
Good: Kitchen Aid
Ungood: other -cheaper/ expensiver/ =
inferior- brands of mixers 
I 'splain you- 
a.)- Purchase One =
(1) Kitchen Aid mixer,   or
b.)- Purchase Six (6) Other -cheaper/ =
expensiver/ inferior- mixers,
      and wish you had gone =
with plan a.)-
c.)- Put time and resources into Espresso, a Best Use =
of Water- 
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
Working on Plan c' =
-Horse!
  
=
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Uh, Kitchen Aid mixers ARE Hobart.  The industrial size Hobarts you  
find in bakeries and church basement kitchens are Kitchen Aids on  
steroids (yeah, I know the Hobarts came first....).
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
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I believe the Hobart bad boys considered the Rolls =
Royce counter top mixerand are far =
more durable than Kitchen Aids (yeah, mucho more expensive tooof course)
Uh, Kitchen Aid mixers ARE =
Hobart.  The industrial size Hobarts you find in bakeries and church =
basement kitchens are Kitchen Aids on steroids (yeah, I know the Hobarts =
came first....).
  
=
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Aha.  That explains why mine is a "honey-I-shrunk-the-Hobart:" it's  
circa 1989.  Its motor could drive a dinghy.
On Jul 9, 2006, at 7:58 PM, Mike Chester wrote:
<Snip>
Sandy
www.sandyandina.com
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Aha.  That explains why mine =
is a "honey-I-shrunk-the-Hobart:" it's circa 1989.  Its motor could =
drive a dinghy.
On Jul 9, 2006, at 7:58 PM, Mike Chester =
wrote:
I have a 25 year old Kitchenaid =
that was made by Hobart before they sold the brand to Whirlpool.  (The first thing Whirlpool =
did was to figure out how to make it cheaper such as using cast plastic =
gears instead of cut steel ones.) It is built with the same materials =
and quality as the commercial Hobart mixers.  It has a 265 watt motor.  About 5 years ago, I decided =
to buy one of the new "heavy duty Pro" models that have 525 watt =
motors.  The first thing =
I noticed was the much louder noise coming from the gear train.  The mixer lasted about 2 =
weeks before the motor burned up mixing a bread recipe that I had made =
hundreds of times with the smaller Hobart made unit.  They replaced it under =
warrantee and I thought that maybe I just got a bad one. I tried making =
the same dough again and the motor began to smoke.  I finished the bread by hand =
and sold the mixer on eBay.  =
I bought a Bosch mixer and it has tons of power It can mix up 11 =
pounds of very heavy dough such as bagel dough without a hint of a =
problem.  In fact, it =
seems to do better with a larger load.  I bought the grinder =
attachment for it because I grind a lot of meat for homemade sausages =
and it performs better than most dedicated grinders that I have =
seen.  If all you do is =
light duty mixing like cake batters, the KA is an excellent mixer but if =
you want to do heavy tasks I highly recommend the Bosch.  If you really want the KA, I =
would look for an older used one made by Hobart on eBay.  Viking makes a nice looking =
new mixer, but I don't know how heavy duty it is.  I know being a Viking, it =
will be expensive.  The =
small Hobart countertop model is an excellent mixer but it lists for =
about $1700 and is not rated for heavy doughs.
Mike =
Chester

Unfortunately, in our globalized (is that a word) world, there are few 
companies that actually exist as we 'remember'. Most are just names that 
have been purchased, downsized, and moved all over the globe several times.
I feel that the Hamilton Beach Big Mouth is more than adequate for my 
average day to day concoctions. If one needs to do serious bread-dough 
beating (I've gone back to hand kneaded on the occasions I actually want 
to bake bread again - but I am not the norm, by any means!), avoid it. 
My own motor burn-out was due to it being taxed beyond it's 
capabilities, and my replacement (Target) was free, so I didn't care.
My experiences with KA have not been favorable (I returned them).
My other solution is to purchase items like this through Costco. They 
have a limited selection, but, heck, I love that unlimited, no time 
restrictions, return policy. (Still can't see how they make any money 
with me...)
Lynne
Mike Chester wrote:
<Snip>

On 7/9/06, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>
Mike, miKe, Vicki, Sandy, and others,
I live alone, and one concern I had about the Cuisinarts is a caution
regarding size of portions that work well in them, i.e., smaller
portions don't work well.
miKe, I notice that you mention a 5-quart processor, and of course
your comment about the food processor being a good tool for cutting
butter into a flour mixture is what started the food proccessor
discussion. Mike, you mention the Bosch. That all being said, any
comments on the following machine?http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-Compact-Series/dp/B0007W15QO/sr=1-14/qid52538911/ref=sr_1_14/002-7566227-7318441?ieF8&s=kitchenThanks,
Brian

Brian, that is why I bought a 7 cup one. I have a 14 cup one for when I 
am coking for an army.
v
Brian Kamnetz wrote:
<Snip>

Brian,
This is the one that I have. http://www.pleasanthillgrain.com/bosch_universal.asp I have the blender 
bottle for it also, but rarely use it as my really old (35 yr.) Oster is 
better.  (I think that is another company that now exists in name only)
They also carry the compact model that you mentioned http://www.pleasanthillgrain.com/bosch_compact_mixers.aspI have not seen or used the compact model, but it sounds like it would be 
perfect for smaller loads.  The problem with small loads in the Universal is 
that it tends to get out of balance.  It mixes fine, but the whole machine 
wants to move around the counter.  I put a rubber grip mat, made to use 
under a cutting board, under it and that seems to work, but I still need to 
keep an eye on it.
I bought mine from Pleasant Hill Grain and found them to be very 
knowledgeable and helpful.  The lady I talked to on the phone knows a great 
deal about their products and will help you pick out the best one for your 
uses.  They also carry a full line of repair parts should the need arise.
Mike Chester