This morning is the El Salvador Finca El Carmen, taken all the way to FC++.
Not only did I go darker than any previous roast of this bean, but I brewed
it drip style in the Braun (mesh cone) machine (nothing special)., Usually I
French Press. Here's the shocker...BEST cup I've had in weeks, hands down.
Brace yourselves for the real sacrilege...I added half n half (gasp)
AND...wait for it...wait for it...I loved it even MORE.
The shame. I had to fess up. I am not proud of myself, but I will not lie to
myself either. The cup first rocked, then rolled. Smooth beyond compare, but
the finish...aaaah the finish! mild chocolatey undercurrent and nutty
quaity...hard to describe...perfect. Prior to this morning I preferred the
Mexico Oaxaca Finca El Olivo to the El Salvador Finca El Carmen, having
tended to compare the two as possessing similar appeal (clean, smooth,
etc...) ; This morning I weep, since the El Salv. is no longer
offered...'Tis gone (forever?). Maybe it's for the best. The transience of
the best cups adds to their "special-ness" and makes them that much more
memorable. Mmmmm.
I wonder if others have found their "best cup" in an unexpected treatment of
a particular bean. It's a refreshing surprise!
TO in VA

Tom,
100 CSA points!  Coffee is to be enjoyed the way you want it.  A
little milk, so what!  Variety is what I enjoy!  I am going to let the
cat out of the bag!  Why the Guatemala Antigua Peaberry "Maria
Especial" isn't sold out is beyond me!  This is a sleeper.  This one
was good before I got sick and it wowed me this morning, as my first
cup of homeroast since being sick.  It must be good, Becky has used
most of it up over the 4 days my stomach couldn't take anything!  As
far as half and half goes, I enjoy a cup with cream every so often.
One of the things I really enjoy is a small dollop of heavy cream on
the bottom of my espresso cup and then pull a restretto.  You get the
nice crema followed by the sweet nectar ending with coffee creaminess.
 I don't stir, so the cream stays on the bottom.  I don't know what it
is called or if it is just my weird concoction, but it sure tastes
good!
Les
On 7/21/06, Tom Ogren  wrote:
<Snip>

On 7/21/06, Les  wrote:
<Snip>
Sorta like Vietnamese coffee - Linda and I had our first Viet coffee a
couple weeks back while in Houston.  Wickedly good, even with their
use of canned coffee.  As soon as we get back to Houston in Sept, some
Viet coffee makers are in the future. I can't wait to try it with
homeroasted.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (Snyder, TX)

On Jul 21, 2006, at 8:39 AM, Tom Ogren wrote:
<Snip>
SORT of... You may (or may not) remember my post a while back about  
the Mystery Bean I found while cleaning up my roasting area. Just a  
small bag, less than a pound, but unlabelled and enough for a batch.  
How long did I have it? Who knows? But what the hey, what would I  
lose by roasting it up? Turned out to be a smooth, buttery, mild,  
nutty coffee that was just fabulous. And I have no idea what it was!
Scot "still weeping" Murphy

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
I am sitting here, enjoying every blessed drop of my Bolivia Organic 
Peaberry De Montana. It roasted to perfection.
The first time I bought this coffee, I roasted it beyond my taste 
preferences - a friend told me she liked dark roasts, so I roasted the 
batch for her... and had some for myself. I was shocked that the flavor 
was /unbelievably/ smooth, (family agreed). I didn't want to do the 
same, so I carefully roasted it to, what I imagine (I am a beginner 
here, so I'm not that accurate) is a full city.
Wow. It is beyond good. Smooth as butter. Yes, I am drinking it with 
half & half (which is a step up from our usual light cream - I'm trying 
to be good). I know I can drink this particular variety black, but this 
morning I opted for the cream.. ah - heaven in a cup!
Once more - here's the clincher - I use an electric percolator to make 
my coffee.
=-O /¡¡Gasp!!/ =-O
Yes, that is my confession. And, no, I will not trade it for anything, 
for it makes an unbelievably good cup of coffee.
I hate drip, and when this baby dies on me (as all appliances will, 
sooner or later), I will most likely get one of those Italian stove top 
Moka pots. My current love is an electric Faberware, and it was recently 
bought out by Salton - so I know the current models do not have the 
quality that my older model has.
Just out of curiosity, I've boiled some water (I've done this a few 
times, because I keep getting interrupted) and measured the temperature 
with both my digital thermometer, and the one I got fr. SM's for my 
Whirly Pop. It never goes above boiling - and I can't figure out how it 
does this, but it seems to just reach 200 degrees. So keep in mind that 
this is different than a stove top percolator (which would be dependent 
on how high the flame is on the stove, and how long one keeps it 
percolating.
(I may start 'rescuing' this brand of perc. from local thrift stores...)
So with this type of percolator, the coffee does not get 'cooked.' My 
informal testing proves that.
Lynne
Tom Ogren wrote:
<Snip>

Where are you measuring temperature?
The pump, the heater at the bottom of the vertical tube, works by heating
the water/coffee until it expands (i.e. makes steam) forcing the column of
water/coffee in the tube up.
If it makes steam, then it's boiling.
Drip makers I have seen use the same type pump, but it is at the bottom of
the water reservoir. Only water gets boiled.
But in any case, if you like it that's great!
On 7/22/06, Lynne  wrote:
<Snip>
tch
<Snip>
 I
<Snip>
r
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r
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s.
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by
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er
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,
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I
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e,
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e
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f
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-- 
"There is nothing new under the sun but there are lots of old things we
don't know." --  Ambrose Bierce

	From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Lynne
	Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 6:00 AM
<Snip>
	I hate drip,
	Lynne
<Snip>
I'd agree 'most' drip brewers brew at too low a temp yielding a dull
sometimes even sourish cup. However, there are drip brewers like the
Technivorn that brew at ~200f at the coffee grounds. Until you've had drip
from a brewer that brews at a decent temperature there's no way to know if
you really like drip brewed or not.
I also agree with Michal Wascher that the physics involved in 'any'
percolator type brewer will be brewing at least part of the coffee itself at
boiling temp. Because of this extremely high brewing temp cups will tend
towards bitter. Adding milk, half & half, cream etc. tend temper or mask the
bitterness.
Bottom line if you like it that way, go for it. If you ever want to compare
'drip' brewed at a proper temp get an inexpensive pour ower.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.

Congratulations Lynne! It sounds like you have discovered why we are all
here. You have also emphasized that there are probably an almost =
infinite
number of combinations that will take you from green coffee beans to =
"heaven
in a cup." There may be a lot of things that can be done to ruin the =
brew,
but there are as many ways to come up with that winning combination.
I would guess that most who use a percolator let it perk too long and =
over
extract the coffee to bitter dreck.  I have a couple of camp percolators =
I
keep for power failures (in Florida, who could imagine?) but I usually =
use
them to heat water and use a filter cone to pour the water over the =
grounds.
This might be an acceptable back-up for your unit, and they can also be
found at garage sales and the like.
Glad to here you finally made the leap to fantastic coffee. Enjoy!
Terry

Oh, I forgot to mention that there was a great discussion some time back
about adding dairy products to your coffee. The point I thought was so
interesting is when someone mentioned that addition of cream not only
changes the flavor, but it also changes the mouth feel, or adds a thicker
feel in the mouth, to the coffee. So by adding or deleting cream, it does
significantly change what your mouth and taste buds perceive during the
experience.
Terry

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
While you may be right (about the Technivorn), since I can't afford it 
now (who knows in the future), I won't be able to compare. (Even if I 
had the money - I'm sorry, but it /looks/ like an /ugly/ machine...just 
my opinion...)
 
I will take the temp. again today (I re-calibrated the nondigital 
thermometer yesterday, just to be accurate). I find that with the Zass, 
the cups are very smooth, even without cream.
One thing I've been meaning to do, for comparison, is do a side-by-side 
makeshift cup of drip (using my little stainless colander), just to see. 
Will let you guys know the results of my newest experiment...
Lynne
miKe mcKoffee wrote:
<Snip>

On 7/21/06, Tom Ogren  wrote:
<Snip>
This morning I roasted some Kenya AA Benvar Estate--supposed to have a
sortof orange citrus flavor-- to about FC+(+?) as well.  Trying to go a
little darker in my SC/TO because I think the lighter roasts are coming out
a bit grassy.  Seems to need a longer rest too when its like that.  After I
get almost-vienna down, I am going to try to play with things to go lighter.
One thing I noticed about the higher quantity of beans and less airflow in
the SC/TO vs. iRoast2 is that there are some signs I wasn't getting before.
The biggest signs to me are:
Steam
1st Crack
Smoke
Smoke+2nd Crack
Stop.
For cooling I'm not doing much.  I pour them into a big metal salad bowl, do
the best I can with the chaff, then I spread them out on a cookie baking
sheet (about 1-2 beans deep) to let them cool.  I'm sure this isn't ideal
but its working out for me at least on the darker roasts.
I also might try FR but I'm concerned about fire because right now I am
flying blind (no temperature indication).
Hope my coffee turns out as well as yours!
-- 
Steven Hay
hay.steve -AT- gmail.com
Barry Paradox: Consider k to be the greatest element of the set of natural
numbers whose description require maximum of 50 words: "(k+1) is a natural
number which requires more than 50 words to describe it."

On 7/22/06, Lynne  wrote:
<Snip>
I love my Technivorm but taste rules all other considerations in my
opinion.  If you've found a system that works, go for it.  If you want a
more stylish and cheaper drip machine with high temps, try a Presto
Scandinavian.  I was worried at first because some people said it was cheap
but now that I have one (for work) it seems like it will do just fine.
Curious, for your perc, how are you grinding it?  How fine?
-- 
Steven Hay
hay.steve -AT- gmail.com
Barry Paradox: Consider k to be the greatest element of the set of natural
numbers whose description require maximum of 50 words: "(k+1) is a natural
number which requires more than 50 words to describe it."

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Steve -
<Snip>
Well, actually, right now $$ rules out my other considerations.
<Snip>
Yes... maybe I just don't know the difference, but my Faberware makes 
one good cup (actually, a few good cups).
<Snip>
Looks really nice, but it's more coffee machine than I need. I never let 
any coffee sit there longer than 15 - 20 minutes - can't see the need 
for an electrical device that keeps the pot hot for longer than 
necessary. Later, if I don't go for a Moka pot (easy to find everywhere 
around here, esp. in the Boston's North End), I'd get a french press 
(with an insulated pot, only because I can't stand how cold the coffee 
gets while it brews).
<Snip>
I'm using my used Zassenhaus (thank you, again, John!) Probably finer 
than I'm supposed to, but I'm happy. (The reason I say that, is that my 
daughter, who is using all of her willpower to only have decaf once in a 
while, complained about grinds in her coffee. I just looked at her, 
shocked that /anyone/ would object to a few fine grinds... to me, mmm, 
tasty..).
Lynne

Terry -
<Snip>
You are certainly right. That's what makes all of this so much fun.
I find it so interesting that many people here look at roasting & 
brewing as a more scientific slant - I tend to look at the whole process 
with more of an artistic, creative view. Same way I learned how to make 
bread.
<Snip>
Or I could just use my teapot...  :-)
What I am going to try to find is a cast iron pot with higher sides than 
my skillet (one of the types that is used to fry chicken, I think), or, 
even better, a cast iron wok. Too many flying coffee beans..
<Snip>
You're absolutely right - it takes some getting used to not having that 
same feel. But my body does not need the added animal fat, so I am going 
to get away from it.
I'm amazed at just how glorious this coffee is without cream. Ah, if 
only my mother (coffee lover that she was) were here to taste this 
elixir... she would have been a convert for sure. (I think I inherited 
my love for coffee from her)
Lynne

Mike -
I did tested another pot of water. My digital therm. is not correct, but 
the used both that one, and the calibrated therm. I got fr. SM.
It's interesting, because the very center, in the bottom, where the 
water is heated, is, of course, the boiling point (212 degrees), but 
there is a good ten degree difference in the rest of the pot. Of course, 
it could measure different with the column in there (not willing to get 
burned even for the sake of science), but this could be why my coffee 
tastes good.
Or, my taste buds are just off.
We'll see when I do my makeshift drip comparison. Possibly tomorrow. 
Can't take too much caffeine (but, oh, every time I open that cabinet, 
the lovely scent of my coffees call out to me...)
Lynne

What you say is true. The heat is concentrated in a very small spot, so just
a bit of liquid is vaporized . Then more cooler liquid seeps into the pump
to be heated. One bubble of steam per bloop.
It is surprising how quickly it cools.
On 7/22/06, Lynne  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"There is nothing new under the sun but there are lots of old things we
don't know." --  Ambrose Bierce

Lynne,
I grew up with a percolator always on the stove. Coffee always perking.
Everyone drank it with no cream, no sugar. My first coffeemaking on my own
was following in my family's footsteps with my own percolator. I'm talking
decades ago. That's where I started my trip to coffeegeekdom. It was the th=
e
first time I realized I could tweak the process to improve the brew.
First the temperature. The lower the flame on the gas stove the better the
coffee. You could tell the coffee would start perking even before the pot
boiled. I even got a stove diffuser, a metal plate full of holes that
allowed the barest simmer without the pot breaking out into a full boil.
Another improvement was increasing the amount of coffee and decreasing the
amount of perk time. I don't remember the amounts I used. Back then it was
something like one plastic scoop of eight'o'clock coffee per cup of water
plus one or two scoops for the pot. And about 4 minutes of perking.
The final step was removing the basket immediately after perking (ouch!) so
the dregs wouldn't drip back into the pot.
These improvements over time made the coffee as good as it got. We enjoyed
our coffee back then. I'm sure it doesn't compare to the coffee I drink
today but those memories are the best.
Toss the thermometer and enjoy your coffee! Have a sip for me for old time'=
s
sake.
On 7/22/06, Lynne  wrote:
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 on
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Decided to make the mole I was craving this afternoon (I think I 
listened to Lila Downs', "La Cumbia Del Mole" too much, although, I 
don't actually think that's possible...) . Whew - tired now (started 
hours ago). But it came out so good. Only problem is, I ended up with a 
huge pot - will have to give some away to friends.
So much for will power - decided that I had to have a cup of Bolivia 
while I was cooking. I figured I'd do the drip experiment. Didn't have 
any filters, so I thought a piece of cheesecloth folded four times, 
placed over a tiny stainless steel strainer would suffice.
It was wrong.
Went through was too fast (looked more like weak tea).
Not to be discouraged - I dumped the whole thing in the cup, ala French 
press. Only without the press. Let it sit a few minutes, then I filtered 
it.
Mmmm. Delicious. Smooth, a bit different - both this one and my electric 
percolator version are both smooth, really good. Might pick up a French 
press as a back-up pot. I actually like both.
I even threw a bit in my mole.
(The smells must have driven the dogs crazy - my little one started 
licking his lips, & they all let me know that they want to eat. )
Lynne
Michael Wascher wrote:
<Snip>

Michael -
Yes, my mom used her faithful stove percolator until she found the 
Faberware.  When I went out on my own, I progressed (or so I thought at 
the time) to a drip.
Ugh. Those Mr. Coffee's and the clones never made a good pot, and it 
always ended up cold.
You were smart to tweak your coffee making back then - I always knew by 
instinct, never checked a clock. Every time relatives came over, that 
little percolator went on the stove (my mom was 2nd generation Italian - 
Sicilian, actually - so no one ever visited without bringing something 
to eat.
Ah, so coffee (and all the good stuff that goes with it in Italian 
homes, like biscotti or even just coffee cake) have comforting memories 
for me, too. Yes, those memories /are/ the best.
My mom always drank it black, no sugar, and, with her strong 
personality, just couldn't understand that others couldn't train 
themselves to do the same. To the day she passed away, if she came to 
visit me, or vice versa, the coffee always had to go on, right away.  Or 
else it was just plain rude.
Lynne (who has been enjoying every sip)
Michael Boshes wrote:
<Snip>

<Snip>
<Snip>
<Snip>
This reminds me of my initial experience with coffee.  I didn't drink coffee 
for a long time after I learned how to make perked coffee but I also 
experimented for my parents. 
When I grew up, my parents worked different shifts, I was about 13, and I 
had to learn to cook for my sister and myself.  I also had to get my father 
up to eat then go back to sleep and that included making a pot of perked 
coffee on a gas stove. 
My parents so loved their coffee, always had to have a pot on the stove for 
fresh or a quick reheat when the desire for coffee came about.  I forget if 
it was my mom or dad that taught me how to make the coffee.  I don't know 
who told me about a pinch of salt in the grounds, but I started doing this 
at one point and both mom and dad loved the pot and asked me what I did.  It 
sure surprised them when I told them that I had been experimenting with 
THEIR coffee and I perked it at the lowest temp for a minute or two more 
than they did and added the salt to the grounds (before the perking). 
I wish I could say it was good tasting, but at that early age I hated 
coffee, too bitter to my recollection.  It was a ritual how they had their 
coffee poured.  Mom's was first to heat the cup, then hers went into dads.  
Then mom's cup was immediately filled again and she would start drinking it 
right away, dad had to let his cool off.  Dad drank black if I remember 
right and mom drank with a bit of sugar and milk if I remember right. 
Oh how they influenced me.  I use some artificial sweetener (I'm diabetic) 
and a creamer of some type (from my mom) and from my dad I got the love of 
cooled coffee as he never drank it right out of the pot.  To this day I 
still can't drink coffee without some sweetener but I can go without the 
creamer at times.  I can't drink piping hot coffee, but I do love it from 
hot to about frozen (I always have a mug in my car for the work trip and 
back home and during the winter it's almost frozen.) 
My wife wanted to get a 4 cup perk machine a couple of weeks ago, but I 
talked her out of it as she loves perked coffee (she's Greek/Macedonian). 
All this talk about perked is making me want to perk-a-pot to relive those 
old days. 
madhemi - roasting on a hemi

Lynne,
It may be ugly, but the coffee coming out of my Technivorm is simply
outstanding!  I never thought I would go back to a drip machine, but
it sure makes that first quick cup in the morning an easy chore.  Poor
Carlos (my Expobar Office Control espresso machine), is feeling
ignored.  I did have some awesome shots over the weekend so he has
been appeased.
Les
On 7/22/06, Lynne  wrote:
<Snip>
From:
<Snip>
[mailto:homeroast-admin]
<Snip>
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 6:00 AM
<Snip>
Lynne
<Snip>
sometimes even sourish cup. However, there are drip brewers like
<Snip>
Technivorn that brew at ~200f at the coffee grounds. Until you've had
<Snip>
from a brewer that brews at a decent temperature there's no way to know
<Snip>
you really like drip brewed or not.
I also agree with Michal Wascher
<Snip>
percolator type brewer will be brewing at
<Snip>
boiling temp. Because of this extremely
<Snip>
towards bitter. Adding milk, half & half,
<Snip>
bitterness.
Bottom line if you like it
<Snip>
'drip' brewed at a proper
<Snip>
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to
<Snip>http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately
<Snip>
first not
<Snip>
found
<Snip>
homeroast
<Snip>http://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroastTo
<Snip>
<Snip>

On 7/22/06, Lynne  wrote:
<Snip>
Lynne - What is the eleveation where you are located?
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (Snyder, TX)

Lynn i agree with you on the art part of roasting/brewing drinking coffee, i
try to view alot of life through an artistic lens, even as a network
engineer, i find artistry in my work. As for my coffee i go by feel, smell,
sight, i dont like to get too scientific because it is not who i am.
i like that everyone has thier own slant on the process, it helps to see how
people enjoy thier coffee, each one a bit different, each to thier own style
and we are all enjoying the best coffee in the world, the coffee we roast
brew and drink.
Woody
-- 
"Good night, and Good Coffee"

I usually roast in a 12" revereware skillet on the side burner of my BBQ.
The hands on of roasting is more ZEN and Art than science, and I love the
quiet.  I roast 2-3lb each load...
Brett
On 7/24/06, Woody DeCasere  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Regards,
Brett Mason
HomeRoast
   Zassman

With good art comes good craftsmanship--knowledge of tools, techniques, etc. 
Only after mastering the basics can an artist 'use the force', and not 
concentrate so much on the craft of art.  Roasting is just cooking, and no 
chef would be worth their salt without a decent understanding of the tools 
of the trade.
I strive to make roasting an art.
*********************
Ed Needham®
"to absurdity and beyond!"
ed at homeroaster dot com
(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

Justin -
I'm at sea level. My thermometer needed to be calibrated again (which I 
did). Also, I noticed that the very center of the electric percolator 
(that's where the heating element is located, I now figure) reached 
boiling (212 degrees), but the outer part of the pot was almost 10 
degrees cooler. Since my little experiment is only done without the 
inserts (have this thing about getting burned, although it'll take more 
than these precautions to keep me from injuring myself!), I'm assuming 
that's why the coffee I make in this percolator (which I roast myself, 
of course) doesn't taste bitter.
This machine won't last forever, (plus, the other coffee drinker in the 
house is moving out fairly soon - and it just can't make just one mug 
full at a time), so I will most likely get something else, like a moka 
pot, or a french press, to brew my brews.
For now, I'm enjoying...
Lynne
Justin Marquez wrote:
<Snip>

George -
Those are some beautiful memories you wrote - food and drink are 
intertwined with emotions, and memories, aren't they?
My dad switched to drinking herbal tea when he developed a bleeding 
ulcer. Well, the coffee aggravated it, but I'm sure it was his Type A 
personality and the stresses of life that caused it. Oh, yeah, maybe 
those memories of WWII that he buried deep within himself may have been 
a factor, too. My sister & I were shocked when he told us, after he came 
out of the coma fr. the massive heart attack that eventually killed him, 
that he served under General Patton... more recently, I am led to 
believe that he may have been one of the men who liberated a Dachau 
subcamp.... So he carried all of that within himself, and, I am sure, 
more...
My mother would have been happy to see me drink my coffee black now 
(with only an occasional sneak of added cream). She'd probably tell me, 
"It's ABOUT time.."She was one tough cookie, and didn't give out too 
many compliments.
As for the temp of our coffee - I am like my mom in that aspect - I like 
it as hot as can be, even in the hot summer (in my teen days we drank 
iced coffee, but I now I only drink it hot). No sugar, like her.
She would have loved the ones I've been roasting. She really would have...
Lynne
George Miller wrote:
<Snip>

George -
Those are some beautiful memories you wrote - food and drink are 
intertwined with emotions, and memories, aren't they?
My dad switched to drinking herbal tea when he developed a bleeding 
ulcer. Well, the coffee aggravated it, but I'm sure it was his Type A 
personality and the stresses of life that caused it. Oh, yeah, maybe 
those memories of WWII that he buried deep within himself may have been 
a factor, too. My sister & I were shocked when he told us, after he came 
out of the coma fr. the massive heart attack that eventually killed him, 
that he served under General Patton... more recently, I am led to 
believe that he may have been one of the men who liberated a Dachau 
subcamp.... So he carried all of that within himself, and, I am sure, 
more...
My mother would have been happy to see me drink my coffee black now 
(with only an occasional sneak of added cream). She'd probably tell me, 
"It's ABOUT time.."She was one tough cookie, and didn't give out too 
many compliments.
As for the temp of our coffee - I am like my mom in that aspect - I like 
it as hot as can be, even in the hot summer (in my teen days we drank 
iced coffee, but I now I only drink it hot). No sugar, like her.
She would have loved the ones I've been roasting. She really would have...
Lynne
George Miller wrote:
<Snip>

Les -
Well, if I could afford it, I'd probably be tempted, despite the 'Hide 
Me Behind a Cabinet Door' design. Of course, it's the coffee, that rules.
Still, I don't see why a manufacturer has to settle for ugly. But that's 
the artist in me - I'm sure most people don't take design into 
consideration.
Lynne
Les wrote:
<Snip>