Michael Vanecek wrote:
<Snip>
    There's a lot of Starbuck's-bashing on this list, and that's fine, but I think
we're forgetting they really did us all a service by raising the bar for coffee in
the States.  OK, so maybe most people on this list could make a product they like
better than Starbuck's.  Their coffee is still far superior to what you can get in
most places.  Sort-of like what Sam Adams did for beer.   I don't think Sam Adams
is the best beer you can get these days, but think of what beer was like before.
Given the choice and I'm home, I'd go to Carrboro's Open Eye Cafe and get a cup of
theirs.  But if I'm not home, if I'm almost anywhere else in the country, I can
find a Starbuck's and get a decent cup.  Maybe not the world's greatest cup, but
certainly better than the Maxwell House everyone else serves.
    And obviously Starbuck's coffee makes a lot of people very happy, or else
they'd be out of business by now.  Yeah, they're a corporation with an eye for the
bottom line.  But they keep that bottom line in the black by providing a product
that an awful lot of people really like.
<Snip>
    True enough.  But those business school grads are just taking advantage of an
unfortunate fact: most people are average.  (By definition, I guess.)  They have
average tastes.  I used to think this was an American phenomenon, that we were
somehow more boring than the rest of the world.  But when I travelled through
Europe the last few summers, I found our boring American stuff is catching on
everywhere.  There's a McDonald's in a surprising number of towns in France, of
all places.  And they're always full.  I was staying in a hostel in Turkey,
overlooking (no joke) the site of the Temple of Artemis, one of the 7 wonders of
the ancient world.  In a sadly ironic twist, the hostel owner was watching The
Adventures of Hercules.  In Turkish.  For those on this list who don't get
American TV (if there is anyone left who fits that description), The Adventures of
Hercules is a really bad dramatic series, heavy on the beefcake and T-n-A, very
loosely based on Greek mythology.  (I guess it's supposed to be for kids, but
given the amount of skin, I have to wonder.)  I've heard Baywatch is the
most-watched TV show in the world.
    The point is, even if Starbuck's strove to produce the most heavenly cup of
coffee anyone has ever tasted, most people wouldn't care.  Most people are
boring.  If you want to make a great product, there will almost always be a market
for it.  And Starbuck's makes better coffee than most places.  But, to expand on
P.T. Barnum's observation, no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence
or the tastes of the American public.
    Steve B

In Boston, we had "The Coffee Connection", Starbucks
announced their entry into the Boston market, and the
owner of The Coffee Connection (wisely) sold all his
stores to Starbucks. Here's how I see it...
Before Starbucks (i.e. The Coffee Connection):
  Knowledgable staff
  Light, Medium, and Dark Roasted Beans
  Coffee making equipment from a wide range of manufacturers
  Excellent, in depth, free classes on everything to do with coffee
After Starbucks:
  Un-knowledgable staff
  Dark, Darker, and Darkest Roasts
  Coffee making equipment from a very limited set of manufacturer(s)
  Classes, to my knowledge, are really in store demonstrations
So, for Boston, Starbucks didn't "raise the bar", they destroyed
the (coffee) bar. In other geographic regions, they may have had
a positive effect, but I don't live in those regions so I don't
experience any benefit. (When I travel I avoid *$ and seek out
the Mom & Pop shops.)
- Jeff Vandegrift
Steve Baragona wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Jeffrey Vandegrift, Principal Software Engineer
Trilogy Inc, 1732 Main St, Ste 101, Concord MA 01742-3810
Voice: 978.371.3980 x104    Fax: 978.371.3990
Email: jvande  Web:http://www.tril-inc.com

Yeah, I'd have to concede - if I had a choice of Denny's and S$ - I'd be
at the big S now. 
It _is_ sad how we're so boring and willing to settle. We could be
watching high quality Beta tapes rather than so-so VHS, using Macintosh
or Amiga rather than Microsoft, etc... I guess it does come down to the
bottom line right down to the individual person. Quality seems to be the
last thing considered and cost the first. We're a nation built and
populated by the lowest bidder.
We're the fanatics. We're the oddballs. We sink ungodly ammounts of
money into our passion for fine coffee. Home roasters, brewers, fancy
scoops, the latest Espresso machine, expensive burr grinders - not to
mention what we're willing to spend of good green coffee. I guess it's
easy to get snobby...
Mike
Steve Baragona wrote:
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<Snip>

Steve’s right: the average customer of the Drowsy Parrot (Saline, Michigan)
was a portly middle-aged school teacher, who probably wished her whip
creamed chocolate almond vanilla mocha didn’t have that bitter coffee flavor
in it.  Most North Americans put a high value on convenience.  Most orders
are to go.  What Starbucks is cleverly doing is creating a fast-food café.
We associate the name of the business with the world’s best coffee.  People
buy it.  It may not be the best of coffee, but they have neat cups, and
people in-the-know will respect you.
When I was just a punk-ass kid dock working in Seattle, I quickly figured
out that Starbucks and SBC were the poorest of the lot there.  The smaller
guys, who focus on quality to a greater degree than on quantity, have the
good stuff.  But who cares?  Who cares if the world is drinking shitty
coffee?  I personally think that Burger King has the worst fast food all
around, but I don’t want to campaign or start missionaries to convert the
savages.  Let us be snobs then.  If the average Joe drank Mocha Hiraz
Souffle Jiihad for breakfast seven days a week, I’d have a hard time finding
it for my own cup.  Let’s take the cream, and leave the milk for those “even
people”.  I don’t want the whole world to be like me and share my interests.
. . after all, I’m a deeply troubled individual!  Look at the mailing list I
subscribe to!
-JIm
PS  Do any of my fellow nationalistic coffee wack-os have any suggestions
for a good straight drip blend?  By this I do NOT mean:
a.	Do any of you think it’s OK to blend coffee?
b.	What does Ken friggin’ Davids think about blending?
c.	Could someone tell me why it’s not good to blend?
d.	Could someone tell me why they never blend coffee?
e.	It’s not OK for people to drink Gay / Lesbian drip coffee.
Oh… and the last post I wrote. . . that should have been TWO and not TO.
Damn roasting smoke!