<Snip> fast as possible. I bring 25lbs to room temp in less than 3 minutes in a commercial roaster. At home with my Poppery, I bring that 1/4lb to room temp in 30 seconds with my ABS/FlourSifter/Shopvac cooler. Build your complexity in the roast, not in the cooling. Bob Dexter, Oregon Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
From: "Bob Holland" "From my experience both Home Roasting and Commercial, is you want to cool as fast as possible. I bring 25lbs to room temp in less than 3 minutes in a commercial roaster. At home with my Poppery, I bring that 1/4lb to room temp in 30 seconds with my ABS/FlourSifter/Shopvac cooler. Build your complexity in the roast, not in the cooling." Yours is the universal response to my previous controlled cooling posts over the years. My story begins many years ago trying to explain complexity differences between roasters, specifically between a Poppery I and various Poppery II clones. After matching the roast profiles, the Poppery I results always far exceeded that from the II clones. All roasts were cooled in the roasters by shutting off the heat. The clones cooled much faster due to the lightweight construction. What? This is ridiculous, I said to myself, cooling must be done as fast as possible, why is the slower cooling Poppery I better? At about this same time, there was a post in alt.coffee in reply to a cooling question that stated in no uncertain terms that cooling must be done as fast as possible. All further replies agreed. I took this as a challenge and began a six month project. The first success was matching the clones' cooling rates to the Poppery I and found that the taste results matched perfectly. The second success was developing an optimum cooling profile by tailoring the cooling rate. The third success came when the controlled cooling was tried on my small drum roaster with the same enhancement of flavors. Over the past year, I have been optimizing drum roast profiles with conventional quick cooling. My fourth success came a few days ago when controlled cooling resulted in enhanced flavors and complexity (and now enhanced body) on profiles optimized for quick cooling. It does not matter to me how others roast (and cool) their coffee. But what does matter is the statement of universals, that there is only one way to do something, and that is wrong. -- Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
So Ken, would you care to share your experiences of cooling profiles for us? what works, what do you find best that you enjoy most? What cooling hardware do you have to make it happen???thanks bill On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 7:23 AM, Ken Mary wrote: <Snip> Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
Try to do all of the roasting while you are controlling the application of heat- You can get any roast you want that way. When the roast is at your desired level, STAND ON THE BRAKES- youre done. You sure won't benefit a good roast by letting it drift. If it does when you do, you weren't done when you thought to cut it loose. If you're traveling by ship, you wouldn't want the Captain to gather the crew for a beer bust in the galley for the last 20 miles of the trip. That's what you're doing when you cut the power and let it drift. Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa! Got Grinder? On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 4:52 PM, Bill wrote: <Snip> Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
In my 5 pound perfed drum roaster, I do cut the propane for the last 15 seconds of the roast so I can hit second crack, allow it to develop a bit without burning the beans, and then dump, cool quickly. The momentum of the beans, and the stored heat of the roaster allow the cracking to continue intensifying until I dump and cool. I don't count seconds, but rather when I am sure second is starting, I cut the heat, and bend down to turn off the propane tank, I then open the roaster, grab the drum and dump. All in all, about 15 seconds. The beans do not develop oil at all this way, and I think the flavor development is greater than not hitting second at all. A small batch air roaster is another bird altogether. ********************* Ed Needham "to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com********************* |
Ray, I just don't know. I think Ken at least speaks from experience, that he prefers the complexity imparted in certain (or all?) beans by ramping cooling. I think he referred to people who treated cooling almost as an article of faith. So to ask, how do you know that your coffee tastes better with immediate cooling? Your point is about drift. Point taken. But what about Ken's claims of better coffee? I think we should see what his exact experience is, and experiment some ourselves. I've gotten hammered by this list saying, "don't take what I say as the best, find out for yourself!" But it's been good advice. Why not experiment with cooling? After all, that's the spirit of this list! bill On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 5:08 PM, wrote: <Snip> Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
From: raymanowen "Try to do all of the roasting while you are controlling the application of heat- You can get any roast you want that way. When the roast is at your desired level, STAND ON THE BRAKES- youre done. You sure won't benefit a good roast by letting it drift. If it does when you do, you weren't done when you thought to cut it loose." Been there, done that many times over the past 5 or 6 years, the taste enhancement comes only during the controlled cooling. -- Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
From: Bill "So Ken, would you care to share your experiences of cooling profiles for us? what works, what do you find best that you enjoy most? What cooling hardware do you have to make it happen???thanks" "Why not experiment with cooling? After all, that's the spirit of this list!" Sorry I did not make it clear enough in my previous messages. Cool in the roaster, reduce heat or turn it off, aim for 300F BEAN temperature 2 to 3 minutes after the start of cooling. It may not be necessary, but I have added a second one minute ramp to 160F in many roasts. Then dump on a tray or other finish cooler. This will get you in the ball park and you can adjust to suit your taste. I have not sampled all the world's coffees, but have found controlled cooling works with all that I have roasted. I am amazed at those with computer controlled roasters who do not try this controlled cooling, or at least have not responded to the list after they have. I believe they are afraid to discover something new or to admit that a cherished lifelong belief now lies shattered at their feet. There is always the chance that I am wrong, and so I often rethink the entire process. But after so much data that reinforces my original conclusion, slow or controlled cooling is now a rule in my books. -- Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
Ken, I appreciate that you've shared that with the list. Like you've said, it's definitely unorthodox to talk about controlled cooling or slower cooling... I'll have to give it a try in my own roasting. My cooling apparatus is very low tech, a box fan and colanders. But I just blast cold air at the beans, I'll give it a try to cool a lot slower now, and I'll see what I find. Question for you (i know, these are getting annoying!): have other people tried your slower-cooled roasts and concurred that the flavors were better, or have these just been done by you? Again, thanks for sharing your experience. I can't wait to see what I see... bill On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 5:47 AM, Ken Mary wrote: <Snip> Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
Interesting, verrry interesting. Sounds allot like what happens inside a Behmor. As long as you do not pop the door open. Ken Mary wrote: > Sorry I did not make it clear enough in my previous messages. Cool in the <Snip> Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://lists.sweetmariascoffee.com/listinfo.cgi/homeroast-sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures 9upload yours!) :http://www.homeroasting.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |