This recalls a question that I've been wondering about myself, what happens when you rest beans after the roast. I've heard many opine that the only thing that happens after the roast is staling of beans, and that for some reason beans that have been staled from 1 to 4 days taste better then right out of the roaster, but if you let your beans stale past 14 days, it's rubbish. This doesn't ring true for me, the roasts I've had that require rest definitely get more balanced and integrated and can loose their grassy flavors with rest, but it's the balance that interests me. Since I've been roasting almonds in the Behmor I've noticed the same thing, the roasted flavors come together much better a day after the roast, even though there's no real off tastes right after roasting, it just doesn't taste like they're quite done yet... like the Maillard Reactions continue in some respect with rest. It's got me curious what's going on inside those seeds. -Chris On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 12:04 AM, wrote: <Snip> Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
As far as what is happening in the seeds I can't answer that. For me and my wife when roasting to FC to FC+ we find 1 to 4 days rest is optimal. There are changes over these few days but past 4 days the coffee becomes bland and loses its highlights. When roasting to C to C+ we find the longer rest time of 4 to 7 days optimal. For us you lose the grassy flavour and the highlights of the beans are more distinct. Beyond 7 days rest we find that all coffee starts to lose its unique characteristics. This is a generality and there may be specific beans that are different. Just our opinion. John H. |
Think Potato salad... Always better the next day or soooo.... Staling coffee? I call it resting and developing. Joe On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 10:15 AM, Yakster wrote: <Snip> -- Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate reform. Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
On Mar 22, 2010, at 2:00 PM, John and Emma wrote: <Snip> I dunno, I think that some coffees are just hitting their stride at 7 days. Then again, I like to go very light with DP coffees, and with those, I think a bit more rest is good. I'd say that they start to degrade after 14 days or so. Darker roasts tend to degrade (for drip) faster, I think, with the weird exception of espresso - espresso often likes a good bit of rest on it, often at least 5 days or more. Go figure. I guess the only hard and fast rule is that the aging requirements vary greatly by bean and how it is roasted. - allon Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
The only hard fast rule I hold to is this: Roast your beans, brew and drink your coffee, do it again and again till that roast is gone. Enjoy the wonderful changes that take place each and every day you drink it. When I bought my Faema E61 Jubilee from an Italian sales person at a coffee fest he told me in a salesman type of way that Americans are too crazy about freshness. "In Italy the beans may age/develop/stale how ever you look at it for months." I think if I travel to Italy I will pack my little IRoast after hearing that. JR On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Allon Stern wrote: <Snip> -- Ambassador for Specialty Coffee and palate reform. Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
<Snip> And I can't think of anyone that says drink the coffee immediately after roasting. The recommendations I've heard are to let it rest, sometimes at least 48 hours before it's really drinkable. My roasts increase their flavor from 24 hours out to almost a week, sometimes longer. I've never had a roast last longer than 10 days or so and I can't say what happens after that. Your mileage may vary. Frank Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
Actually, Frank, I routinely brew coffee immediately after roasting. It often has some very interesting characteristics that are not there after even a few hours rest. But then, unless I'm out of roasted coffee, I let it rest a minimum of a couple days before brewing more. Brian On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 4:35 PM, Frank Parth wrote: <Snip> Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
"...a question that I've been wondering about myself, what happens when you rest beans after the roast. I've heard many opine that the only thing that happens after the roast is staling of beans, and that for some reason beans that have been staled from 1 to 4 days taste better then right out of the roaster, but if you let your beans stale past 14 days, -*it's rubbish.*" You said a mouthful - emphasis mine. We've come a long way since the Goats imbibed coffee that was neither roasted nor aged. They weren't dancing- They Were Gagging. The stuff was Terrible, and they clearly said so- "Bah!" <Snip> environment of roasting the hydrocarbon beans would represent the ultimate Staling event. The subsequent evolution of CO2 from the roasted beans continues for as long as they are still fresh, in my opinion. Maintain the roasted beans in this naturally-occurring CO2 bath and they maintain freshness as they age. The CO2 is more dense and displaces oxygen, so staling can't occur as long as the beans are submerged. If you are curious and really want to sample stale beans, try some Archer Farms coffee from the bins at Target. Not their prime commodity and no better stored than letters in PO boxes. CO2 seeps right out and the O2 fraction in the atmosphere is pulled in behind it. Think- "100# of peanut butter." In an open bowl- stale. Coffee absolutely stales when it oxidizes, not at all when it's kept submerged in the out gassing CO2. If you can hermetically seal your favorite burlap bag or bamboo basket, it's all good. Cheers, Mabuhay -RayO, aka Opa! Got Grinder? Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
My mileage >is< different! (grin) I have had great coffee with beans still warm from the roaster. That's often when drifty, volatile flavors are alive never to be seen again. With a coffee where this is most evident, I notice a drop in flavor at about 1-2 days, then it peaks with low notes (minus the volatiles) at 3-4 days where it starts a decline. It has been quite interesting to taste the different flavors at various ages. I hesitate to embrace any rules of thumb, only that the flavors are time dependent. It's worth defying conventional wisdom and cupping some young coffees. Bob <Snip> Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
I might add here the observation that darker roasts are "ready" earlier than lighter roasts. One of the possible reasons is that the "bright" flavors appear to be "brightest" just out of the roaster. In some cases with bright, acidic coffee, lightly roast, that might just set your teeth on edge it's so bright. When the volatiles combine with the natural acidity of the bean and the higher acidity of lighter roasts, blowing off the volatiles by resting a few days to tone things down a little makes a lot of sense. Darker roasts appear to mute the high, bright notes, and so are ready earlier. Does any of this make sense? Doug On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 10:01 PM, Bob Hazen wrote: <Snip> Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
I am not sure just how it makes sense but my experience does lead me
to agree entirely with it. When I roast in the wok and need coffee
rather soon, because of my usual poor planning, I will take all but a
couple of days supply out at the right point and over roast the
remaining a bit just to get by for a couple of days.
pecan jim
On Mar 23, 2010, at 5:30 PM, Doug Hoople wrote:
<Snip>
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It makes complete sense to me. I recall an unruly, tart, light-roasted Kenyan that was undrinkable even after a couple days. It took a good 10 days rest, but it finally settled down. Makes my mouth pucker just thinking about it. I general, I prefer heavier, less-bright coffees roasted to FC or FC+. Right out of the roaster they're not so jarring as that darn Kenyan of days past. Bob <Snip> Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
Poor planning? You too? (grin) That's exactly how I learned I have a fondness for beans warm from the roaster! I guess being late for work occasionally due to emergency coffee roasting might be a bit obsessive, eh? Bob <Snip> Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
The first time I ever had home roasted coffee was on a trip in Costa Rica. The gentleman learned how much I was into drinking coffee and offered to make me the best cup I ever had (I have always drank coffee day and night). He took green beans and used an air popper to roast them right there, used a colander to cool the beans and culled the unroasted ones (about 4). He ground the roasted beans, brewed them using the sock style brewer you see everywhere in Costa Rica and made the best cup of coffee for us in our lives. Rest time was as long as it took to cool the beans (a couple of minutes tops). My first experience with home roasting and I was hooked. That is the start of where I am today. John H. Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |
Lighter beans still contain more of the volatiles, the flavenoids, the fruity acids, the sugars. They will mute over time until the staling process overrides the muting. Darker roasts have burned away more of these components and carbon is pretty stable (grin). Roasted coffee beans do change over time, and based on personal preference, level of roast, individual varietals, it only makes sense that there will be a 'sweet spot' for beans at different times out of the roaster. I personally like the beans at roast time for their dancing flavors and liveliness most often, but I have tasted beans at a week that were very nutty, smooth and mellow. The right out of the roaster tastes and smells are pretty much why I homeroast and don't buy beans at the local coffeehouses. ********************* Ed Needham "to absurdity and beyond!"http://www.homeroaster.com********************* |
ED: <Snip> are pretty much why I homeroast and don't buy beans at the local coffeehouses.<<< I could not agree more. ginny have a great wek! On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 3:04 PM, Ed Needham wrote: <Snip> Homeroast mailing list Homeroasthttp://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20">http://host.sweetmariascoffee.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast_lists.sweetmariascoffee.comHomeroast community pictures -upload yours!) :http://www.sweetmariascoffee.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemIdx20 |