As the instigator of the little discussion a little while ago about "adulterating" coffee, I thought I might as well fess-up. Although I do appreciate my coffee black most of the time, this morning I was in a mood for something different, so I plopped a spoonful of vanilla ice cream into my hot steaming cup of Mandheling. Mm mmm .... I admit it, I'm a part time adulterator! ;) ------------------------------ Lee in San Diego homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
From: "Lee XOC" <Snip> What a wonderful desert idea. For after dinner just pulled us 5oz Cafe' Cremas made with Kona LFC, dolloped about a good heaping tablespoon of Vanilla Bean Ice Cream into them. Sipping mine now. Oops, just swallowed the last of the unmelted ice cream! Not bad at all. (and I never put sugar in coffee no matter what the brew technique.) Not too much sweet to over power the Kona Cafe' Crema.... I do enjoy a Mocha now & then too. Well, if you count the white chocolate iced mochas I make and bottle and take with me to work then it's about daily. (I average 100 miles per day running around doing computer field service work, always in my travel cooler plus water and a diet coke...) MM;-) Home Roasting in Vancouver, WA USA Dedicated to the Art & Science of coffee excellence - learning more and knowing less each day. homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
Ok, I have a couple confessions that I have to get off of my chest. They have been weighing heavily on me but I will come out and say it. Please be gentle. First Oh first let me say that I was really tired. And I had been driving for about 5 hours. And I still had 3 more hours to go. Did I say I was really tired? Here goes. Last week I was driving from OH to NJ and, I was tired. I needed a pick-me-up. Man was I tired. I stopped at a rest area and went inside and there was a, gulp, Starbucks kiosk. I couldn't help myself. I was weak. And I was tired. So I bought a cup of coffee. At least that is what it looked like. It wasn't the name. I forget the name but it had a bunch of words in it. I just pointed at the cup and the carafe. Ok that was the first confession. Here is the truly grievous one coming up though. I liked it. It was a pretty decent cup of coffee. They called it their extra light (or mild) I forget which. A Guat Antigua that I could actually tell was a Guat. I could actually taste origin traits and the coffee was fresh. The true shocker was that the roast was at most a FC+. Its been a few years since I've been to a Starbucks but this was the first non-French I've seen. Getting a decent cup of coffee so unexpectedly in the middle of the PA turnpike really added a bright spot to a really tedious drive. Maybe I won't be so dismissive of them in the future. Or maybe I shouldn't push my luck? -- Don |
Losing points... oh no... getting weak... HAL ? On 7/6/06, Don Cummings wrote: <Snip> -- Regards, Brett Mason HomeRoast Zassman |
crickets chirping... On 7/6/06, Don Cummings wrote: <Snip> |
--Apple-Mail-16--7625899 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset -ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Sounds like their Light Note blend. Normally, they brew it insanely strong so it'll have that "Starbucks taste" they think their customers have come to expect; but you might have stumbled across a server (a stretch to call 'em "baristas") who hasn't gotten the word from corporate and actually brewed it the way it was meant to be brewed at home. On Jul 6, 2006, at 10:33 PM, Don Cummings wrote: <Snip> Sandy www.sandyandina.com --Apple-Mail-16--7625899 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset O-8859-1 Sounds like their Light Note = blend. Normally, they brew it insanely strong so it'll have that = "Starbucks taste" they think their customers have come to expect; but = you might have stumbled across a server (a stretch to call 'em = "baristas") who hasn't gotten the word from corporate and actually = brewed it the way it was meant to be brewed at home. On Jul = 6, 2006, at 10:33 PM, Don Cummings wrote: |
Glad you found a decent cup when you needed the pick-me-up on the road. I found it interesting and seemingly illustrative of *$ style that what you saw as Full City to FC+ *$ described as Extra Light. Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before. From: homeroast-admin [mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Don Cummings Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 8:33 PM Ok, I have a couple confessions that I have to get off of my chest. They have been weighing heavily on me but I will come out and say it. Please be gentle. First Oh first let me say that I was really tired. And I had been driving for about 5 hours. And I still had 3 more hours to go. Did I say I was really tired? Here goes. Last week I was driving from OH to NJ and, I was tired. I needed a pick-me-up. Man was I tired. I stopped at a rest area and went inside and there was a, gulp, Starbucks kiosk. I couldn't help myself. I was weak. And I was tired. So I bought a cup of coffee. At least that is what it looked like. It wasn't the name. I forget the name but it had a bunch of words in it. I just pointed at the cup and the carafe. Ok that was the first confession. Here is the truly grievous one coming up though. I liked it. It was a pretty decent cup of coffee. They called it their extra light (or mild) I forget which. A Guat Antigua that I could actually tell was a Guat. I could actually taste origin traits and the coffee was fresh. The true shocker was that the roast was at most a FC+. Its been a few years since I've been to a Starbucks but this was the first non-French I've seen. Getting a decent cup of coffee so unexpectedly in the middle of the PA turnpike really added a bright spot to a really tedious drive. Maybe I won't be so dismissive of them in the future. Or maybe I shouldn't push my luck? -- Don |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Don't worry about body or should I say Starbucks slamming, I to have found on several occasions have stopped into one of their many = stores and actually enjoyed the product. If you like milk based coffee = drinks then you will most likely enjoy their products. I can produce better ones at home but on the road I stop in Starbucks = for a quick fix. 10 Demerits CSA ponits anyway:O) RK |
Hi Don, As much as I hate to admit it, there are a few people other than those = on this list that know how to make good coffee. It doesn't happen often, = but occasionally I have been surprised to find the same thing. There is a roaster in Tampa who sells over a million pounds of coffee a year. They roast single origin coffees as well as blends. They know how = to roast at City+ and darker, ship the same day they roast, and do sell to quite a few restaurants, I just don't know which ones. Their coffee is typically not the quality we buy from SM, but some friends who really = cannot afford more than $3.00 a pound or so for beans buy regularly from them = and the coffee is not bad. Other, non-roasting friends, buy roasted beans several pounds at a time and freeze them and they have been satisfied. So, it is possible to get good coffee someplace besides home. The odds = are probably only slightly better than winning the lottery. Terry |
Hi Once again, been lurking but had to reply to this.
Three years ago, or was it two, I made a trip from Mattydale, NY to Minot,
North Dakota to see my son in the Air Force. It was a 30 hour trip that was
made with only stops for gas and a mens room pit stop on every other.
Average pitstop was less than 20 minutes. I wasn't into home roasting yet,
only started this past Jan with my first order...a Zach's roaster and their
beans. I didn't know about Sweet Marias then.
Well, on that trip I took two quart stainless steel thermos's full of
whatever I was drinking at that time. When I ran out someplace around hour
24, I stopped into gas station with a small restraunt in it. They had what
they said was fresh roasted coffee and in different orgins. I think I got
the Sumatra in the largest cup they had as I really needed a cup. I really
loved that cup of coffee and never forgot it. Since then I have started
home roasting and have about 32 different SO coffee beans. Guess what is my
favorite as to this day....Sumatra in both the Gayo Mountain and the
Mandheling. Other major favorites are the Zimbabwee coffees, the Monsooned
Malabar, and Ethiopian Harar Horse.
Still haven't gotten the hang of espresso...tried a double shot made at
Williams-Sonoma, the clerk was showing me the different espresso machines
they had. It was a Lilly {sp} blend of pure arabica and was roasted to a
full city. He used an automatic machine that costs about 2 grand. Had to
put some sweetner in it to tolerate it. |
I guess this shows that, at times, even corporations can do something right. Out of curiosity, how much did the charge you? Steve On 7/6/06, Don Cummings wrote: <Snip> |
Still making payments. ;) Actually I think it was like $2. On 7/7/06, Steven Sobel wrote: <Snip> -- Don |
Ah, I don't mind Starbucks myself (though my opinion may carry no weight = here since I would be considered a coffee-n00b). Anyway - according to = Kenneth Davids' book (someone who IS reputable) "Home Coffee Roasting : = Romance and Revival" he mentions that Starbucks typically roasts at the = FC to FC+. I suspect that the difficulty they have is keeping their = roasted beans fresh. I've purchased their whole bean coffee in the past = (before I got into home roasting) and based on the way they beans look, = typically it's a FC or FC+ (unless you're buying their expresso roast or = french roast, etc). later, jason From: homeroast-admin on behalf of miKe mcKoffee Sent: Fri 7/7/2006 2:48 AM To: homeroast Subject: RE: +True Confessions Glad you found a decent cup when you needed the pick-me-up on the road. = I found it interesting and seemingly illustrative of *$ style that what = you saw as Full City to FC+ *$ described as Extra Light. Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I = must first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal = enlightenment found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone = before. From: homeroast-admin [mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Don Cummings Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 8:33 PM Ok, I have a couple confessions that I have to get off of my chest. They have been weighing heavily on me but I will come out and say it. = Please be gentle. First Oh first let me say that I was really tired. And I had been driving for about 5 hours. And I still had 3 more hours to go. Did I say I was really tired? Here goes. Last week I was driving from OH to NJ and, I was tired. I needed = a pick-me-up. Man was I tired. I stopped at a rest area and went inside = and there was a, gulp, Starbucks kiosk. I couldn't help myself. I was weak. = And I was tired. So I bought a cup of coffee. At least that is what it = looked like. It wasn't the name. I forget the name but it had a bunch of words = in it. I just pointed at the cup and the carafe. Ok that was the first confession. Here is the truly grievous one coming up though. I liked it. It was a pretty decent cup of coffee. They called = it their extra light (or mild) I forget which. A Guat Antigua that I could actually tell was a Guat. I could actually taste origin traits and the coffee was fresh. The true shocker was that the roast was at most a FC+. = Its been a few years since I've been to a Starbucks but this was the first non-French I've seen. Getting a decent cup of coffee so unexpectedly in = the middle of the PA turnpike really added a bright spot to a really tedious drive. Maybe I won't be so dismissive of them in the future. 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<Snip> Many years ago, in my prehomeroast days, a local drugstore began selling whole bean coffee in several "flavors" one of which was Sumatra. It was the best by far of all their coffees. Mandheling and Gayo Mtn are still among my favorites. The other Sumatras, triple picks etc are too refined and overprepped, their life has been removed. Homeroasting has opened my eyes to the world's coffees. It is much easier to pick my least favorites and that would be most Centrals. My most favorite would be any aged coffee. Roasting the aged coffees is much easier and more predictable in a drum. A few tries in a popper resulted in blowing out most of the (very much lighter) beans onto the countertop or into the chaff trap. The major impetus in my switching from popper to drum was being able to roast aged coffees. -- |
As far as Kenneth Davids being a "coffee expert" is highly debatable by the real coffee experts in the field (and I'm not talking about me by any stretch of the imagination). Good coffee writer yes. Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before. From: homeroast-admin [mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Jason D. Montgomery Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 9:24 AM To: homeroast Subject: RE: +True Confessions Ah, I don't mind Starbucks myself (though my opinion may carry no weight here since I would be considered a coffee-n00b). Anyway - according to Kenneth Davids' book (someone who IS reputable) "Home Coffee Roasting : Romance and Revival" he mentions that Starbucks typically roasts at the FC to FC+. I suspect that the difficulty they have is keeping their roasted beans fresh. I've purchased their whole bean coffee in the past (before I got into home roasting) and based on the way they beans look, typically it's a FC or FC+ (unless you're buying their expresso roast or french roast, etc). later, jason From: homeroast-admin on behalf of miKe mcKoffee Sent: Fri 7/7/2006 2:48 AM To: homeroast Subject: RE: +True Confessions Glad you found a decent cup when you needed the pick-me-up on the road. I found it interesting and seemingly illustrative of *$ style that what you saw as Full City to FC+ *$ described as Extra Light. Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc: http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htm Ultimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before. From: homeroast-admin [mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Don Cummings Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 8:33 PM Ok, I have a couple confessions that I have to get off of my chest. They have been weighing heavily on me but I will come out and say it. Please be gentle. First Oh first let me say that I was really tired. And I had been driving for about 5 hours. And I still had 3 more hours to go. Did I say I was really tired? Here goes. Last week I was driving from OH to NJ and, I was tired. I needed a pick-me-up. Man was I tired. I stopped at a rest area and went inside and there was a, gulp, Starbucks kiosk. I couldn't help myself. I was weak. And I was tired. So I bought a cup of coffee. At least that is what it looked like. It wasn't the name. I forget the name but it had a bunch of words in it. I just pointed at the cup and the carafe. Ok that was the first confession. Here is the truly grievous one coming up though. I liked it. It was a pretty decent cup of coffee. They called it their extra light (or mild) I forget which. A Guat Antigua that I could actually tell was a Guat. I could actually taste origin traits and the coffee was fresh. The true shocker was that the roast was at most a FC+. Its been a few years since I've been to a Starbucks but this was the first non-French I've seen. Getting a decent cup of coffee so unexpectedly in the middle of the PA turnpike really added a bright spot to a really tedious drive. Maybe I won't be so dismissive of them in the future. Or maybe I shouldn't push my luck? -- Don |
Fc means a lot of different things to a lot of different roasters. I
saw an Equal Exchange bin at a store and the roast marked Full City
was full-on French. Maybe the city they were referring to was Paris?
Anyway, I think Starbucks house blend is way beyond FC - if you taste
carbony roast notes, it is NOT FC. My .02 cents
Tom
<Snip>
<Snip>
--
"Great coffee comes from tiny roasters"
Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting - Tom & Maria
http://www.sweetmarias.com Thompson Owen george_at_sweetmarias.com
Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
phone/fax: 888 876 5917 - tom_at_sweetmarias.com |
My current favorites include the Gayo mountain and the Aged Mandheling. On 7/7/06, Ken Mary wrote: <Snip> -- Don |
Ah, see - I don't care for their House Blend at ALL. :)
later,
jason
From: homeroast-admin on behalf of Tom & Maria - =
Sweet Maria's Coffee
Sent: Fri 7/7/2006 12:58 PM
To: homeroast
Subject: RE: +True Confessions
Fc means a lot of different things to a lot of different roasters. I
saw an Equal Exchange bin at a store and the roast marked Full City
was full-on French. Maybe the city they were referring to was Paris?
Anyway, I think Starbucks house blend is way beyond FC - if you taste
carbony roast notes, it is NOT FC. My .02 cents
Tom
<Snip>
I
<Snip>
you
<Snip>
<Snip>
--=
"Great coffee comes from tiny roasters"
Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting - Tom & Maria
http://www.sweetmarias.com Thompson Owen george_at_sweetmarias.com=
Sweet Maria's Coffee - 1115 21st Street, Oakland, CA 94607 - USA
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I guess I should fess up. I drink 'bucks fairly semi-regularly. I get re-gifted gift cards from relatives who believe caffeine is evil. Anyway, I find the green tea frappe without syrup to be tasty. I stay away from the coffee, tho'. The few coffee drinks I've had at the Green Mermaid have been very disappointing. But I can say the same for most coffee chains. Now, on the other hand, the local micro-roasters, many are simply sublime. If I lived within the Tri-met service area, I probably would drink Stumptown nearly everyday and never even thought of roasting my own. Elaine |
Interesting, so his work at coffeereview.com on rating coffee isn't = respectible? I'll grant a proclaimed expert is not an expert unless he = is validated by his peers. Okay - so who are the real coffee experts in the field? later, jason From: homeroast-admin on behalf of miKe mcKoffee Sent: Fri 7/7/2006 12:48 PM To: homeroast Subject: RE: +True Confessions As far as Kenneth Davids being a "coffee expert" is highly debatable by = the real coffee experts in the field (and I'm not talking about me by any stretch of the imagination). Good coffee writer yes. Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I = must first not know. And in knowing know I know not. 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Tom and Maria are. ((I don't have tunnel vision...)) Well, there's Mike McKoffee. John and Les are pretty sharp too. I think that's it, but I may have left out another 1-200 experts I read from almost daily.... Juss helpin, Brett On 7/7/06, Jason D. Montgomery wrote: <Snip> -- Regards, Brett Mason HomeRoast Zassman |
Well, I don't claim nor have I every claimed to be an expert in any coffee related field, or any other field for that matter. My sigtag is my philosophy, not just something I made up that might sound catchy. I may have a bit of experience in various areas but am no expert. Today I do however claim my first ever Ristretto Godshot: comprised of 1/3 LFC Kona Rancho Aloha (8 day vac jar rested end of batch) 2/3 FC Bolivia Cenaproc (6 day vac jar rested) pulled at 203f which turned out to be the perfect temp, slowly oozing 1oz in 35sec (timed after 2sec manual line pressure preinfusion to augment E61 automatic preinfusion) virtually all crema before gorgeous Guinesss effect, stopped with no blonding in sight. I'm a picky SOB (and some say a bit of a perfectionist;-) yet couldn't think of a single way that shot could have been better. Absolutely Devine. I digress (as usual)... To be clear I never said Mr. Davids' work wasn't respectable or valuable, I just don't consider him a "coffee expert". Maybe an "Everthing you wanted to know about coffee but were afraid to ask" type expert from a novice perspective. Written some pretty interesting, high level informative and oft times entertaining books on coffee history, coffee growing, growing regions, production, brewing methods including but not limited to espresso, roasting methods including but not limited to home roasting to name a few areas off the top of my head. But for instance researching and writing about coffee roasting does not make a person an Artisan Roast Master with decades of experience, or a home roaster with decades of experience for that matter. How much value would I place in Mr. Davids cupping results versus someone who is routinely called upon to judge various International coffees and relies on their cupping expertise for a living as Tom and many many other professionals do? Or the expertise of the farmer nurturing his crop year after year producing award winning cups compared to writing about growing coffees. Man what a wonderful linger from that Kona/Boliva ristetto. I wonder what kind of espresso setup Kenneth Davids has at home... Probably near the top of the GS3 waiting list if he's really into the espresso he writes about. I would be if I had his (assumed) connections! Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before. From: homeroast-admin [mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Brett Mason Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 4:02 PM Tom and Maria are. ((I don't have tunnel vision...)) Well, there's Mike McKoffee. John and Les are pretty sharp too. I think that's it, but I may have left out another 1-200 experts I read from almost daily.... Juss helpin, Brett On 7/7/06, Jason D. Montgomery wrote: Interesting, so his work at coffeereview.com on rating coffee isn't respectible? I'll grant a proclaimed expert is not an expert unless he is validated by his peers. Okay - so who are the real coffee experts in the field? later, jason From: homeroast-admin on behalf of miKe mcKoffee Sent: Fri 7/7/2006 12:48 PM To: homeroast Subject: RE: +True Confessions As far as Kenneth Davids being a "coffee expert" is highly debatable by the real coffee experts in the field (and I'm not talking about me by any stretch of the imagination). Good coffee writer yes. |
I agree with the previously identified 'experts' list and would like to nominate: Bob Yellin and Jim Schulman (they have a high standing in my personal list). Mike (just plain) |
<Snip> I how heartedly agree with your nominations. Their early dual voltage control roasting inspired my Frankenformer Rosto roasting and Jim's cupping abilities still leave me in awe. Since we're in nominating mode can't forget Ed who's early Q drum work inspired Ron's quality RK Drum biz, or Ted and his designed and built pounder plus gas fired air roaster, I foget who was first to bring the novel heatgun/dogbowl roasting to the scene but certainly must be included, and can't forget natural wood fire Wok, frypan, manual popper roaster extraordinaire Pecan Jim or gee the various computer controlled or PID controlled electric Popcorn poppers out their including this dude out in The Dalles OR... Definitely some serious talent floating around these coffee lists! Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before. |
Excellent - well i'm definitely enjoying the discussion (and impressed = by the contraptions for sure, having a BS in EET myself - when I see = some of the contraptions built for coffee roasting, it really brings = back that desire to create something electrical - I get flashbacks to = college). I also look forward to hearing more from the experts. Couple more questions (one roasting related, the other related to = brewing): 1. Relating to this post - What is the harm/benefit to preheating the = roaster before dropping the beans in? I have read that the roasters = should be allowed to cool completely before roasting another batch. = Should a roaster be at room temp before the next batch, or is there = harm/benefit to starting out a littler warmer (or a lot warmer)? 2. Since we started roasting our own coffee this past month, I decided = to break out the French press - hadn't used it in a couple years. Turns = out we only seem to like the coffee brewed in our French Press, our = Starbucks coffee pot just isn't doing it for us. We noticed the = Technivorm Brewer on SweetMarias - is this they way to go for = convenience - if so which model? or are they all basically the same. = Other suggestions? The Chemex looked interesting as well, but I'm = looking for something to use when we don't want to be as hands-on. For those interested, I received the Stir Crazy a couple days ago but = am still waiting on the Turbo Oven to arrive. Some disconnected the = heat element in the SC but others left it in (or added a switch to turn = it on and off), which made me curious - I wanted to know the ambient = temp of the SC when it's full on, by itself (no TO), after its been = allowed to completely warm up. Preliminary results looks like the ambient temp of the SC (with its = factory lid) oscillates between 275 F up to 339 F and back down to = around 275 F as the thermostat turns the heater on and off until you = unplug it again. When I first plugged it in, it took a few seconds shy = of 3 minutes to heat up to 310 F before dropping down and beginning the = oscillation cycle between 275 F and 339 F. Certainly not enough heat by itself to do anything interesting but = probably ruin green coffee beans. For those who are curious what the SC = brings to the table, that's where its at. I have no idea when combined = with the Turbo Oven if it will have any effect what-so-ever - remember, = i did electronics, not thermodynamics. :P later, jason From: homeroast-admin on behalf of miKe mcKoffee Sent: Fri 7/7/2006 10:15 PM To: homeroast Subject: RE: +True Confessions <Snip> I how heartedly agree with your nominations. Their early dual voltage control roasting inspired my Frankenformer Rosto roasting and Jim's = cupping abilities still leave me in awe. Since we're in nominating mode can't = forget Ed who's early Q drum work inspired Ron's quality RK Drum biz, or Ted = and his designed and built pounder plus gas fired air roaster, I foget who = was first to bring the novel heatgun/dogbowl roasting to the scene but = certainly must be included, and can't forget natural wood fire Wok, frypan, manual popper roaster extraordinaire Pecan Jim or gee the various computer controlled or PID controlled electric Popcorn poppers out their = including this dude out in The Dalles OR... Definitely some serious talent floating around these coffee lists! Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I = must first not know. And in knowing know I know not. 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