This is a multi-part message in MIME format. From the "Re: problem with St Helena" thread: [snipped Charlie's doomsday scenario of bad coffee for all] As long as a market for premium coffee exists, there will be folks willing to produce for it. At SM, we pay $4-5 per pound, while 2 pound cans in the local grocery are about $6. This extra 30-60% price will motivate some one to produce superior coffee, even if it's at lower volumes and even higher prices. I don't like the idea that I get cheap coffee b/c some third world folks are going bankrupt, but it's true. I drink fair trade coffee when I can, and I've ordered some fair trade coffee from SM. Fair trade aside, coffee prices aren't going back up until the supply falls, in other words until folks are driven out of the business. I'm sure that we'll lose a lot of quality producers, but it's not reasonable to think the market would let all the quality stuff go away. Not when that extra profit is available. The coffee producers will be looking for a way to differentiate their product, and having these specialty coffees is a great way to do it. I haven't researched this issue in depth, but one of the news reports on NPR interviewed a guy from Starbucks who claimed that a big part of the problem was that the market didn't adequately measure quality. I find this hard to believe, but apparantly the Vietnamese robusto beans (which frequently contain twigs and pebbles) are not sold differently than quality arabica beans. If this problem were fixed, everything would probably work out much better. Bad beans would be cheap, good beans would be expensive. The price system is at the heart of the free market, and if that's broken... Maybe what we need is some kind of uniform coffee grading via some world wide coffee association. Such a system would ultimately benefit everyone, although there would be some unhappiness for a while as people tried to get their beans graded higher than they deserved. I'm sure there would be loud claims of injustice when cheap beans got down graded. tmk -- Ted Kostek 765 494 2146 (desk) 765 494 1489 (engine room) 765 494 0787 (fax) "Always keep in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any other thing." Abraham Lincoln |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Thanks, Dan, for the links. Here's an interesting one that you might want to check out:http://www.scaa.org/industry/survey/Sustainable_Coffee_Report_NA.pdfIt's a 32 page report looking at a segment of the specialty coffee market (shade, organic and free trade). I just got it, and so I haven't read it yet. I'm also looking at some of the links you suggested. tmk -- Ted Kostek 765 494 2146 (desk) 765 494 1489 (engine room) 765 494 0787 (fax) "Always keep in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any other thing." Abraham Lincoln |
Dan said: <Snip> When ever possible, I prefer market based solutions. Considering that specialty coffees are 17% of the market, it seems reasonable to trade them on their own, although perhaps smaller categories wouldn't be handled efficiently (Kenyan vs Sumatra are probably too small to be individually traded). Is there a move afoot to achieve this? In the future, I'm going to make a greater effort to get free trade coffee. I'm also going to join the SCAA; they seem to be working for long term quality coffee. tmk -- Ted Kostek 765 494 2146 (desk) 765 494 1489 (engine room) 765 494 0787 (fax) "Always keep in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any other thing." Abraham Lincoln homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
I'm my own thread. Neat! Some one pointed out to me that I didn't mean "free trade", I meant "fair trade". Sorry for any confusion. tmk -- Ted Kostek 765 494 2146 (desk) 765 494 1489 (engine room) 765 494 0787 (fax) "Always keep in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any other thing." Abraham Lincoln homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
Well I guess I can turn off my search engine now on the free coffee :O) John - Celebrating my birthday with LOTS of ISH coffee. On Tue, 2002-08-27 at 11:27, Ted Kostek wrote: <Snip> homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
Ted Kostek wrote: <Snip> What I gathered from reading Uncommon Grounds was that any time an international "organization" of coffee folk is tried, it devolves into national politics and maneuvering to get one's own countrypeople the best coffee prices. I'm not a student of economics or markets, so much of the book was lost on me, but it just seemed that any time the coffee industry (or any particular arm of it) tried to organize, bad things ultimately happened. Including wars. Seems coffee is (or was) pretty darned important to some economies. -- garyZ homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
Feliz cumplianos Juan! I think that with "lots" of St. Helena coffee you probably couldn't afford a cake and candles, but I know what I'd prefer on my birthday. Many many more, old chum Charlie --- John Abbott wrote: <Snip> ===== Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quoteshttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast">http://finance.yahoo.comhomeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
Gracias Amigo! I figured the ISH was in the same category as those wines we tuck away for special occasions and so I un-vac-ed a bag and I've put away almost a half pound of it today. I'll probably be up all night - but I can roast or something constructive. John - hoping this shaking is coffee and not old age catching up :O)) On Tue, 2002-08-27 at 13:58, Charlie Herlihy wrote: <Snip> homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Happy Birthday John. Hope you have the best day ever. Sounds like you = started it out right, St. Helena, is that what the rich folks drink? LOL = Have a great birthday. Ron Kyle a coffee roaster from South Carolina rnkyle |
Thanks Kyle. Not rich if you own any ISH - you spent it all on the beans :O) It is my special occasion coffee and this is special enough. On Tue, 2002-08-27 at 19:47, R.N.Kyle wrote: <Snip> homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. From what I've learned there are 5 bean classifications. Specialty (or = Class 1) being the highest grade. But in the market place this is = reduced to three pricing classes all based on one price. This creates a = leveling effect and high quality beans can't be traded based on their = quality. When the cost of sh*tty beans or a glut in the harvest of = Exhange Grade (Class 3) drops, the price of quality beans drops, too! Exchange Grade (Class 3) beans are quoted on the NYCE, then a discount = is given to Class 4 & 5 beans. An added percent is given to Class 1 & = 2. If this is true, then this is part of the problem. If the New York = Coffee Exchange doesn't discern quality, then this isn't being passed = downward along the supply line. Vintners solved this problem a long time ago by assigning 'appelations'. = Wine made from grapes in certain, very carefully designated areas = command a premium price. This way, the growers got a better price. What I suggest is the SCAA work with the NYCE people to add an = additional price to Class 1 beans, or better yet, trade the Specialty = Grade separately, and let market demand control that price. http://www.binews.com/"If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem."">http://www.coffeeresearch.org/market/coffeemarket.htmhttp://quotes.ino.com/exchanges/?r=NYBOT_KChttp://www.binews.com/"If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem." Dan |