My Alpenröst came today, and after a self-induced catastrophe, I roasted 8
ozs of Malawi Mapanga. Fortunately, I'm not overly fond of it (sort of
bland stuff), because with the catastrophe batch and the second (real)
batch, I threw out a pound of green today.
Oh, well. Sorta figured I'd have a few practice runs.
Decided to set the machine at 10 (since I knew - or thought I knew, based
on my FreshRoast experiences with it - that I wanted to take this
particular coffee a bit into second crack). 
First started at 11:30 minutes. By 15 I was well into second (distinct
ratatatat), and by 16:30 started to see smoke. Manually went to cool at
17:30. When the machine shut down, I found Italian roast with a little
French thrown in (and three inexplicably green beans).
From Tom's notes, I had expected longer times all around.
Now I wonder if I may have one of the 'hot' Alps. Guess I'll try another
batch tomorrow, and this time I'll stop shortly after getting to second
crack to see if I can get a useful darkness (but no more!).
Still hopeful.
Kathleen

Kathleen,
I have found this advice from coffeenut very helpful, and it is almost 
identical to the description provided by Texinga a short while back. It may 
save you a couple of pounds of your favorite beans should you run short of 
the not-so-great ones.
Terry F
In a message dated 8/7/00 11:00:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
coffenut writes:
<Snip>
cooling
<Snip>
roast
<Snip>
"Cool"
<Snip>
heater
<Snip>
the
<Snip>
or
<Snip>
Swissmar
<Snip>

on 8/9/00 3:38 PM, Kathleen Tinkel  wrote:
<Snip>
This seems very fast. Did you weigh out the amount of green beans you put
in? If you used 227 grams, this is hotter than spec. The timing of the smoke
confuses me a little, though - I would expect some smoke starting at the
second crack, not so long after it. At the speed you report till 1st crack &
2nd, by 16:30 I would expect lots of dense pungent white smoke.
Barry
Barry Corliss
MASTER WORKS CD Mastering
Seattle, WA   (206) 282-2274http://www.master-works.com

Tfisher and Kathleen,
"Texinga" became "coffenut" as a result of a recent ISP switch from AOL to
BellSouth.  BellSouth had an offer I couldn't refuse and I had grown tired
of AOL's proprietary email application and nag-timer.  Anyway, the similar
advice you mentioned is from the same person (me).  I'm glad you have found
it useful and hope I can give back to this group a portion of the helpful
advice that they have given me.  Coffenut  :^)

TF Fisher, Barry Corliss, and Coffeenut:
Well, I'm not sure about the timing now. I'll do another batch tomorrow,
when all is peaceful, and take careful timing notes.
However, I should say that I am 'going by ear' - not by the numbers. That
is, if the numbers had worked out all right, I wanted to see if I could
calibrate my preferences to them, but I was really paying attention to the
cracks, or at least I thought I was.
I was surprised to get such pungent smoke when I did.
Appreciate *very much* your comments. Still being puzzled, however.
KT

Barry C.:
Yes, I weighed out the beans. My scale is crude; think I should probably
get a digital one. Do you think being off by a fraction of an ounce would
make a great difference?
KT

Kathleen,
Something is wrong with the emails I'm getting this evening.  I'm only
getting a fraction of what appears to have been sent today and have not seen
your full previous message about the roast problem/results.  I'm curious
what bean were you were roasting when you had these results?  I've only seen
Barry's reply to you with a snip of your original message and it looks as
though you said you hit 1st crack at 11.5 minutes?  That's pretty quick.
Assuming you didn't confuse a bean tumbling in the drum with actual 1st
crack, I'd say you must have a unit that's calibrated to the hot side.
Because of the clinking-tumbling beans in the drum, I remember asking the
guy who invented the Alp how I'd know if I really heard 1st crack?  He said,
"if you only think you heard it, you probably didn't" and he was right.
Anyway, knowing that you have roasting experience, I expect you could
clearly hear the crack...although a few times I found myself daydreaming
about having a stethoscope.
I recently hit 1st crack at 12:18 minutes roasting the Timor Aifu bean.
There was heavy smoke by 14:18 minutes and I went to cool down at 15:30
minutes.  Even with all that smoke, the roast result was still a dry bean
(albeit a dark brown color).  Before that, I was roasting some Sulawesi
Rantapao and took it just through 2nd crack.  The smoke with that bean
continued coming out heavily for 2 minutes after I pressed the Cool button.
All this is to say that I've seen a lot of different smoke activity across
about 15 different beans so far.  Just this morning I was roasting some of
Tom's new Kona Kowali Blue Mountain and I swear the smoke output was so
small, I began to wonder if my heater was working properly.  Turned out the
beans roasted just fine and it was just a characteristic of that bean.
Hopefully, I'll catch up on these lost messages and can offer more help.
Coffenut  :^)

Coffeenut:
Thanks again...
<Snip>
<Snip>
   with actual 1st crack
I don't think I was confused, but who knows? I'm getting ready to try
again, and this time I'll be especially observant. I generally note the
time of the first loud crack as well as the time it dies down, but that was
easier with the FreshRoast than it's proving with the Alp - in my two
experiences of it. Gotta get used to it.
<Snip>
   Timor Aifu bean ... heavy smoke by 14:18 ... cool down at 
   15:30...a dry bean (albeit a dark brown color).
That's one of my favorites; once I'm able to get a brewable roast out of
this machine, it will be my first run. Then I'll see how my time goes -
thanks for the reference point.
<Snip>
That's discouraging. I wish I could see what's going on - going by ear
alone is not proving too satisfactory. With the FR I'd focus a good
flashlight on the glass toward the end, and go to cool just as the color
started to approach the color I wanted. 
Someone did suggest cracking the Alp's door and taking a fast peek, but I'm
not sure I could do that very quickly, and wonder about causing a
significant drop in temp. Though at that (late) point - after first crack
into second - maybe that's not such a bad thing, especially if it's running
hot.
Thanks for more useful advice. 
How long have you been using the Alpenröst?
Kathleen

Kathleen,
I've been roasting on the Alp for 3 months now.  While that doesn't qualify
me as a seasoned roaster, I do have my "sea legs" with the Alp and can
achieve results that suit my tastes across a variety of different beans.
Much of the credit goes to the capability and design of this roaster.  On
peeking during the roast, I've not done it and sort of forced myself to use
my other senses and experience.  I'll admit it was uncomfortable learning
that way since I'm a very visual type learner.  There are those that do take
a quick peek and claim it doesn't hurt the roast.  Sometime (during a roast
of so-so beans) I'm going to experiment with this and note any differences
in crack times or roast results.
Since it appears you have a hot unit (like mine), you can consider it a
blessing or curse depending upon your needs.  I consider it a blessing and
asked the guy who invented the Alp (Anthony Lemme) if this would have any
adverse affect on the life-span.  He said "no" and that the Alp is actually
capable of much higher temperatures/heat calibration.  I decided my units
calibration was a good thing and decided to keep it even though Anthony has
offered to adjust it.  If using the automated timer settings is important to
you versus manually pressing the "Cool" button, then I'd advise getting a
replacement.  By the way, the timer is supposed to default to Setting 1 =
16:35 with each setting extending that time by 15 seconds.  That would put
you at a finish time of 20:05 for a setting of 15.
Coffenut  :^)

A couple of notes - 
One person's first crack timing may be different from another person's
first crack timing - there are a lot of variables involved from ambient
temperature to bean density. 12'ish it about as close as you can come to
pre-expect a first crack in an Alp, give or take a little. As long as
it's not unusually less than that like 9 or 10 minutes or unusually
longer than that like 15 or 16 minutes everything should be fine. If
it's much less, be aware that your roast may be progressing faster and
be prepared to cut it short. If it's longer then be aware that the roast
is going slowly and be prepared to run a slightly longer roast. Try to
roast in a temperature range that feels comfortable to you for the most
consistent results. If you feel cold, then your roasts will likely take
longer, and if you're hot your roasts will tend to be shorter (that is,
if you're doing it manually) to achieve the same target roast-level. I
roast inside but exhaust outside through the window (a benefit of the
Alps side venting as opposed to the HW top venting), so it's easier to
maintain a level of consistency. For those of you that roast on the
patio or in the garage, consistency is more challenging but with
experience and experimentation not impossible. Also, before depending on
the settings to set roast time, set it to max and run the roast manually
and with a stop-watch. Mark when the first crack started and ended and
depending on the coffee, recommendations and personal preferences wait
till you feel you're coffee is done and mark the total roast time. Then
take the closest time value on the setting to what you got from your
stop-watch (16:35 up in incriments of 15 seconds if I remember correctly
from setting 1 to 15) to run the rest of the roasts in auto (though you
still want to babysit it with a stopwatch). This is something you'll
have to do with every different coffee and only if the temperature is
consistent (roasting inside). For outside roasters, nothing beats doing
it manually.
Smoke is also very relative. Different coffees will produce differing
amounts of chaff which is a large contributer to smoke in the Alp. The
chaff flies off and lands on the 900 degree burners for an instant puff
and into the chaff tray to smolder and produce smoke as it's heated from
above. As the roast progresses so will the smoke which will be a
combination of what the coffee puts out and what the chaff puts out. A
coffee that produces very little chaff will correspondingly produce very
little smoke. Likewise, if you're roasting a naturally processed coffee
like Eth Harar, be prepared to experience a lot of smoke. The smoke is
no real indicator of roast level - try to stick to your ears and listen
for the crack. I've ruined a few roasts thinking it was burning up
because of all the smoke only to find barely yellow coffee with a tray
full of black chaff.
<Snip>

<Snip>
   1 = 16:35 with each setting extending that time by 15 seconds.  
   That would put you at a finish time of 20:05 for a setting of 15.
Thanks for that. I was wondering if the settings affected the roasting
curve at all - sounds as if not; it's just a timer with its own scheme. By
'default' do you mean that the increments could be changed? (Just curious.)
I wouldn't mind getting to a point where I could use an automated setting
for a particular coffee, but my intention first is to see what I can get -
period - and that means listening, hearing, thinking - all that tedious
stuff! 
I think I'll do some more experimenting before considering any change. I
got this thing because I felt I was missing something with the FreshRoast -
depth of flavor, something like that. 
But if it is a 'hot unit' and if that means that the thing roasts too fast,
it may need some adjustment. For fast roasting I have the FreshRoast, after
all!
But first things first: I've scarcely given the Alp a chance.
By the way: I'm impressed by the elegance and simplicity of its design, the
use of materials that can tolerate a dishwasher, and some other features. 
Of course, it is the natural curse that a designer (which I am) will always
think of things to fix (or modify): I wish there were a way to glimpse the
roasting beans; I wish the light would change during cool-down (or that
there were a second light); I wish the seating of the drum were more
certain (it's too easy to miss the cog, which is on the far side of the
unit; and the general design allows the drum to seat out of contact). 
But it basically seems solid to me. Now I just need to get a better feel
for the way it works...
KT

Michael,
What I've learned from Coffeenut is that 2.5 mins past the first crack of
first crack will give me a medium dark bean with no oil. That's where it's
been at for me on the following beans: St. Helena's, Kowali JBM, LaMinita,
Kenya AA Nyanji, McClure Kona Extra Fancy, Mex Tres Flecas; Yemen
S'anani,Panama Songbird, Puerto Rico Yucca Selecto, and a couple of others
that don't come readily to mind.
Yes, different ones reach the first crack of first crack at different
times. Yes, the first crack ends at different times with different beans.
Yes, the first crack tends to run longer with some beans than with others.
None of that seems to make a difference using this method. I'm sure it can
be fine tuned to the Nth degree to achieve variations of that final color,
etc. However, I just set it on 15, go read a book or whatever, for about 10
mins, come back and start listening. When I hear that first crack, I stop
the roast.
BTW, I can hear this from about 8-10 ft away very clearly in a quiet house
with air conditioning on and the overhead stove vent on high.
I'd guess you to be totally correct about everything you've said below. I'm
merely offering an alternative that was offered to me a couple of days and
about a dozen roasts ago. Coffeenut was spot on correct in my book. All the
numbers become meaningless using this method.
Yet another Michael  ;->)
<Snip>
bean
<Snip>
button.
<Snip>
across
<Snip>
of
<Snip>
the
<Snip>
help.
<Snip>

I've now done two roasts of Malawi Mapanga:
   (1) 1st C, 13:25; cool 18:20; dark, oily, beans; pungent smell 
        Drank some today - weak coffee flavor but not really as
        charred as I expected. 
   (2) 1st C, 14:20; cool 15:45; med. brown, dry, no coffee smell
Also roasted 8 ozs of Burundi Superior AA: 
   (3) 1st C, 12:50; cool 17:15; even darker and oilier than (1),
       but the smell isn't bad; I'll probably drink some of this
       tomorrow - unlike (2), which I think I'll just dump. Life is
       too short to drink obviously really bad coffee!
Conclusions so far: If (???) the critical span is the time between first
crack and cooling, then 1:25 is too short and 4:25 to 5 minutes too long.
Of course, I roasted different beans. But still think I'll try to go to
cool at somewhere between 2 and 3 minutes after first crack with my next
run (more of the Burundi).
The roasts are uneven. Nos (1) and (3) vary from virtually black to med
dark brown (all with oil right out of the roaster). The light roast (2)
varied from med brown to tan, all dry. And I'm getting a few (2, 3)
completely unroasted beans in every batch. Is this normal for the Alp?
Kathleen

<Snip>
I've been wondering if you could time things based on the point where the
smoke output increases.  Mine seems to smoke a little for a long time, and
then the smoke output goes up dramatically.  That should be fairly easy to
sense... maybe with a converted smoke detector?  Detect the increase point
and start timing from there....
Paul Goelz
Rochester Hills, MI
pgoelz at eaglequest dot com
Videoastronomy and music (UnFest) web site:http://www.eaglequest.com/~pgoelz

Yet another Michael:
We seem to be thinking alike. I'd just decided to try stopping the roast at
between two and three minutes from first crack - see how that does.
But you confused me by saying:
   >> When I hear that first crack, I stop the roast.
Guess I'll try it myself, but am curious to know exactly when you do press
Cool.
Thanks.
Kathleen

On the unroasted beans, what's happening is a couple of beans are
falling out into the collection cup at the beginning of the roast and
don't get roasted. If you take your hot coffee and put it into a
strainer to continue cooling it's fairly easy to pick out these stray
beans. As far as wide variance - I had the same problem. I had an Alp in
my "roasting room" that consistently crisped out my coffee on setting 1.
I bought another Alp and it did the same thing. Since I had tested two
Alps and only one room, I moved both Alps into another room on a
different electrical circuit and they work fine (a little on the warm
side - but now I can actually underroast my coffee). Since then, I've
learned that the circuit they'd been on had been "beefed up" to
facilitate plugging a lot of devices into. I'm not an electrician, so I
can't explain the science, but I can say that I'm much happier now and
can roast a full pound at a time with the two Alps (definately useful
come Christmas time)... 
Do you have an accurate scale? I bought a digital scale from Tom and
have been using 230grams/8oz on everything and it's helped greatly in
consistency. 
Mike
<Snip>

Kathleen, My error...very sorry. I stop 2.5 mins after I hear the very
first crack.  Regards, Mike

Interesting. This line is one of our modern ones. The only other thing on
the line is our 1200 cfm range hood, which I often run when the roasting
gets smokey (along with its lights). Maybe we should test the voltage when
I'm running - could be something in that. 
And I'm plugging into a power strip - where I plugged in the FreshRoast.
But that might be affecting things as well.
I have a crude spring scale. I checked it by weighing two quarter lbs of
butter and a half-pound package of cream cheese, and the results were
consistent, so think I'm probably close enough. But I think I'll get a
decent digital scale - what's another $40?  
Makes sense about the unroasted beans - thanks.
KT

Try plugging directly into the wall and see how that works. Generally,
Alp doesn't recommend using extension cords or such. That could very
well be the source of your headaches. And believe me, that digital scale
is worth the $40 bucks. Getting digitally exact measurements helps
eliminate one possible area for error. I've spent a lot of money on the
gizmos and it's a bit of an expensive hobby to get started, but once the
money's spent and you're equipped, then it's just $25+- bucks here and
there for 5-pounders of coffee - so the expense goes downhill once
you've past the gathering stage. Of course, you could always go to
another project - like espresso and start the spending all over again...
:) I'm still shopping for a little 2-head commercial machine and I know
I'm gonna have to drop at least $2500+ for one (scary when my business
is still kinda hand-to-mouth). Oh and then there's all the neat cups
(you'll have to collect espresso cups as you travel) and a rack to
display your cups, and the little spoons, tampers, milk-frothing devices
and containers, syrups, flavors, books, etc... Then once you've paid for
all that, there's always something else - like a dozen different vacuum
brewers to grace your display cabinet. Or Turkish grinders. Or French
Presses from around the world. Moka pots out the ears. eBay's full of
it. Hey, we live to spend, right? Shuh - makes me want to start
collecting pet rocks at the local creek and let it be. 
Mike
Kathleen Tinkel wrote:
<Snip>

Kathleen,
On the timer, when I said "default", that meant this is the manufacturer
setting and is not user adjustable (unless you want to start tinkering
inside).  Like some of the others, I just put my setting on 15 and manually
force Cool-down when I want the roast to end.  Mike V. had some good points
in his post and I want to be clear that I only mentioned smoke output as one
indicator of the differences in beans.  Certainly, the farther you take the
roast, the stronger the smoke becomes and it is probably the smell of the
smoke that signals more to me than the volume of smoke.  I can smell the
difference when I've crossed into 2nd crack as the smoke becomes more
pungent.  For me, there is a "sweet spot" on the Alp no matter if you have a
hot unit or one that is middle of the road.  That sweet spot is the point in
time that most beans roast to your liking.  All time adjustments from there
are a matter of your preference with a given bean and what you want to
achieve.  Some beans I like to roast darker just to the point where a light
oil is on the bean.  For those, I'm usually roasting up to 3 minutes past
the very 1st crack I hear.
Of course there are those beans like the Sulawesi Toroja Rantapao, that
really threw a monkey wrench into my early knowledge base.  When I roasted
that bean the first time, I hit 1st crack at 14:18 and 1st crack lasted
until I finally hit the Cool button.  I kept listening for 2nd crack, but
could not detect it.  At 16:45, smoke levels and pungency were telling me I
was in oily bean territory.  After cool down and bean dump, I opened the lid
to find that my senses were correct.  I figured I had over-roasted the bean,
but decided to let it rest over-night and taste it.  One day of rest and I
thought "yuck", this batch is horrible.  Then I remembered a comment from a
more seasoned roaster who had said that some beans are at their best 3 to
even 5 days after the roast.  That was the case with this dark roasted batch
and I found an entirely satisfying flavor after 3 days of rest.
Well, as usual, I've digressed and probably need a few sessions at "coffee
lovers anonymous".  Anyway, once you get your sea legs with the Alp, you're
gonna love it, so take it easy and you'll hit your stride pretty soon.
Coffenut  :^)

Mike,
<Snip>
digitally exact measurements helps eliminate one possible area for error.
About a week ago was about to order a digital scale from Tom. My wife
walked in with one for me. I like Tom's a lot better, however..... ;->)
Most important is that our scale was off. Had only measured once for the
FreshRoast and it showed so close to being correct that we topped off the
little measuring cup and went on about our way.
There ~is~ a difference. Now? I wouldn't dream of roasting a half pound of
anything without measuring it out first.
If you don't already have one, I totally agree with you, Mike...order one
from Tom...it should last for eons.
Mike

Mike V. and Kathleen,
I run my unit on the back porch using a 25ft (14gauge) extension cord using
the outdoor (20 amp) outlet and have no voltage drop or loss.  Having read
many posts having to do with voltage effects on roasters, I know this is
something that is worth checking into.
On the few un-roasted beans, that's a new one to me.  I've never seen that
one in any of my roasts on the Alp.  I've noticed that some beans
(especially the peaberrys) want to hop out the end of the drum while I'm
loading it sideways into the Alp.  I hold my right hand over the open end of
the drum when loading it to keep any wandering beans inside until I get the
drum set down inside the unit.  Then if there are a few beans close to the
edge of the open end,  I just push them farther back into the drum so they
don't jump ship when the drum first starts turning.
Coffenut  :^)

I think I'm safe from most of that - but thanks for the warning! :)
I've been making sporadic attempts to roast my own beans since the 1970s.
I've roasted on top of the stove, using a couple of weird devices (but my
favorite ended up being a wok), I've roasted on perforated pans in the
oven, have an AromaRoast from 1982 or so, and a couple of other weird
devices. (Somehow managed to skip the hot air popcorn popper - I think I
had given up by then.) 
I won't even begin to list all the coffee brewing devices we have or had...
(I grew up with vacuum pots; my first 'grownup' coffeemaker of my own was a
handblown Chemex. When we lived in Little Italy in NYC we used a Moka pot.
The list goes on. I can say proudly that I've *never* owned a Mr Coffee,
however!)
We even have a mediocre espresso thing from Krups (mostly so my husband can
have cappucinos) - I mostly prefer to buy espresso from someone who really
knows how to make it, a few times a year. What I really like, every day, is
a nice mug of brewed coffee, black, no sugar...
What brings me back to roasting at this point is the quality of the tools
we have now - and even more important, access to information sources like
Ken Davids's books, this mail list, the alt.coffee newsgroup, and various
coffee sites on the Web, including, of course, Sweet Maria's. I used to be
flying by the seat of my pants. Now I have help from the likes of you. That
makes all the difference in the world!
Now if I can just tame this beast, I'll be content, I think...
I'll try plugging directly into the wall. Thanks for the suggestion.
Kathleen

Thanks.
I know what you mean about giving some coffees a long resting period. And
especially giving them time if they seem very dark - things are not always
what they seem.
Anyway, today I managed to produce licorice (but I'm letting it rest just
to see what happens to it); straw (ditto); just sub-licorice (definite
hopes for that one); and medium dark brown. Two Malawi, two Burundi (a much
nicer coffee in any event).
With the last, I started timing from first crack - for now, that will be my
modus vivendi. Once I know how that works (or if it fails), I'll try
something else...
Maybe tomorrow I'll roast some of the Timor Aifu - it's been my favorite
from the FreshRoast - or Sulawesi. Glad I didn't waste these with my first
Alp roasts, though...
We should all go to coffee lovers anonymous - my husband is starting to
look at me funny. I tend to leap into things, but this one is kind of in
his face (I've been roasting on top of the stove to use the vent).
Thanks for all your very helpful advice - 
Kathleen

Which digital scale is Tom selling?
Cooks Illustrated magazine did a comparison of scales a year or so ago -
without looking it up, it seemed that most of the digital ones were fairly
comparable but some were easier to read and/or use than others. Maybe I'd
better rummage around, see if I can find that.
The one I'm using is really minimal - uses springs. You move the dial to
zero to set the tare, then go ahead. When it's sitting on the counter, it's
always losing its adjustment - I think it moves in the breeze! But two
sticks of butter weighed the half pound it should have, as did a package of
cream cheese, so I've been trusting it with the Alp...
Still, the machine deserves better... 
KT

My husband said he'd measure the current at the power strip next time I
roast; then we can measure it when directly plugged into the wall.
I'll report back if there's anything interesting to discover, but I suspect
this machine knows how to deal with currency fluctuations...
KT

Kathleen,
Your initial roasts would have produced the same results on my Alp.  If I
limit the time after 1st crack to less than 2 minutes, I get (my opinion) an
under roasted bean.  Were I to extend the roast to 5 minutes past 1st crack,
I'd definitely have a dark oily bean and have entered the "char zone".  The
sweet spot for my liking is about 2.5 minutes after 1st crack.  If I get a
bean that is still lacking enough developed body, I'll let it go to 3
minutes or so (past 1st crack) in order to bring it to my liking.
Just roasted a batch of the Kona Kowali BM two days ago.  Hit 1st crack at
13:39 and went to Cool at 16:00 before 2nd crack got to start.  The bean
color was absolutely gorgeous.  Only having the four colors in the back of
Ken David's book, I'd estimate the color around an Agtron 50.  Tasted the
results this morning and while it was very mellow and smooth, I'll let the
roast go another 30-40 seconds on the next batch.  I usually follow Tom's
roast level advice from his bean cupping detail pages on his website when
I'm trying out a new bean for the first time.
Haven't seen those few un-roasted beans thing you've reported.  Depending
upon the bean, I'll occasionally see some slight unevenness in the roast
color, but nothing striking or that I feel is affecting the cup results.  On
the just after roast aroma of the beans, I find that many beans have a very
weak aroma, but develop very nicely in 1-2 days.  Of all the beans I've
roasted, the one that had the strongest post-roast aroma was the Mexican
Organic Pluma (Loxicha).  It smelled heavenly right after the roast and only
got better with time.  This is one of my favorite beans next to my love for
Sulawesi's and Ethiopian Harar.  Give me a cup of Harar after dinner and I
go around the house making ohhhhyeeeaahhhh sounds after each sip (drives my
daughter crazy and makes the dog think he's supposed to get something)...
Coffenut  :^)

Well, progress of a sort. Sorry to be long-winded, but I need to confess my
sins here...
The four roasts from yesterday failed, pretty much. That is, two were
licorice and charcoal (not my style!), one was burlap and grass (that
either), and one - the last - was almost roasted enough but tainted by
musty smoking off-flavors.
Thus the confession: I was an idiot with the first roast right out of the
box. I failed to engage the cog correctly and the drum didn't rotate and
within minutes cascades of grimy smoke was pouring out the end of the
machine. By then, after frantically reading and re-reading the *copious*
(not!!)  documentation, I realized what I must have done and I switched to
cool. 
When it cooled down, I found a real mess, most of it stuck to the walls of
or otherwise wedged into the drum - bits of charcoal, some of it glowing
red; piles of ash; very, very black beans, and some others that hadn't
roasted at all, with everything in between. Tarry gunk, chaff, divots, and
whole beans were stuck to the shutters and the curved cover was luminously
brown-black like a cockroach's shell.
I washed the movable parts in soapy water, and wiped down the door and
shutters, but not to much effect. All that gunk rose again to taint 
subsequent roasts yesterday. I only really appreciated the effect when I
got past the licorice stage with that last roast (which I brewed and tasted
today).
So tonight I really cleaned the machine. Because I had some handy, I used
isopropyl alcohol on paper towels, which did a fabulous job, btw. It's
extremely volatile as well as water soluble, and didn't seem to leave any
traces. In any event, I started the empty machine, then switched almost
instantly to cool, and it all evaporated. The shutters were silver again,
and moving freely. And much of the dark stain came off the door, though not
all (it was almost bonded to the metal).
And then I did two more roasts. Whew. This time I decided I'd use my sweet
Timor Aifu. The first hit first crack at 13:20 and I hit cool 2:30 later
(at 15:50). Medium dark brown, dry. Perhaps a tad under-roasted (we'll see
tomorrow).
Later I did a second, same bean. This time I went 3:00 beyond 1st crack,
but it may actually have been a bit longer than that. Had an isolated crack
at 12:15, then a cluster at 13:00; I went to cool at 16:00. This time some
of the beans were quite dark, though most were medium dark.
No trace of charcoal smell, so I may have survived that. And tomorrow I'll
know if I have taken a few tiny steps toward taming this beast.
Thanks, all. Couldn't have done it without you!
Kathleen
P.S. to Coffeenut: I have some of the Mexican Organic Plume and will give
it a try - once I think I have some control over the Alp.
KT

Kathleen, you make this sound like fun! Everyone (so Davids says, and I
agree) gets to taste a dark roast by accident at least once, and certainly
some may be darker than others! Yours is far from the first mention of the
lack of explicit directions and problems with setting up the alp machine
prior to first use, and they had similar results... burnt coffee and mucho
smoke. Nonetheless this machine seems to be quite sturdy and those other
folks seem to have, by and large, moved past that initial excitement to some
level of satisfaction with the brute largely unscathed by its ordeal.
I still admire the sleek looks of the alp and do like the drum mechanism as
an alternative to hot air roasting, but I would really miss easy visual
confirmation of the roast as well as telemetry for temp. I hope they will
add these on the Son of Alp... or perhaps the Alpsdatter model.
Thanks for the story. We tend to gloss over the initial rough spots and they
are always fun to hear about, since we all have been there, done that. I
roasted my first batch (an innocent Harrar) for some 25 minutes in a too
cool corn popper and then, since it HAD turned brown, brewed and drank it.
Worse, I got my friends to drink it too. Amazingly, one of them now
home-roasts. She doesn't talk to me anymore, though... Hmmm...
Ted
<Snip>
<Snip>

Kathleen,
Been there too and I enjoyed your candid experiences.  My first roast on the
Alp would have put "Charbucks" to shame and I smoked up the house so bad my
wife said, "that thing goes outside from now on"!  So, it was out to the
back porch for the Alp and me where over time it has delivered many
delicious roasts.  I trust that you will find that place too.  Best wishes.
Coffenut  :^)

Coffeenut:
Thanks for the encouraging words. I can use them. At this point, the narrow
window between charcoal and under-roasted is well under two minutes.
That is: Timor Aifu roasted 16:20 exhibited under-developed coffee flavor
16 hours after roasting. The same bean roasted 17:45 tonight is mostly
charcoal - dark and glistening, with about a third of the beans merely
medium dark and gleaming, which an obvious charred smell. I'll taste that
tomorrow, just to see how it grows up, but I don't have a lot of hope.
Does that seem right?
Kathleen

Kathleen,
Something doesn't sound right about those results on the front end (16:20).
At 17:45, with a "hot unit", I too could have seen a very dark oily bean
with some charring effects.  Under-developed at 16:20 is the part that
doesn't fit.  I've roasted the Aifu as well and at 15:30 the roast result
was med to dark brown and dry.  The cup result was (to my tastes) fully
developed with good body.  I would have expected your 16:20 time to have
produced a dark brown bean with possibly some oil.  Of course we may not be
comparing "apples to apples" between our units, voltage, environment, etc.
If I were you, I'd contact SwissMar and ask for Anthony Lemme to contact
you.  He's the real expert on the Alp and would be able to help you
determine if the unit needs replacement.
Coffenut  :^)

Thanks, Coffeenut -
I think I'd better take your advice (to call SwissMar).
Something must be wrong with the calibration. If 1 = 16:35 and each number
after 1 increments by 15 seconds, I'm getting charred beans at 5 or so.
It's as if the 15 divisions need to be redistributed within the bottom half
of the scale.
While I don't necessarily plan to use the automatic settings, I think if
that scale doesn't relate to real-world roasting then it's a symptom of
something being awry with the unit. Too bad it doesn't hook up to my
computer - then they could diagnose it over the phone, download a ROM
patch, fix it like that. 
Thanks, again. Think I'll use the FreshRoast today just to have something
pleasant to drink.
Kathleen

Kathleen, please look at the prongs on the plug on your Alp. If the 
number 004 is there, your machine needs replacing. Have that 
number on the plug with you when you contact them. 
They replaced my Alp because it ran too hot. They sent out the 
new one and put out a call tag to pick up the old one. First class 
people and a first class product.
Mike
On 14 Aug 2000, at 9:37, Kathleen Tinkel wrote:
<Snip>

Mike R:
   >> ...look at the prongs on the plug on your Alp. If the 
      number 004 is there, your machine needs replacing.
Well, well, well - indeed it is there. Thanks very much. I'll e-mail them
right now.
If identifying the hot machines is that easy, wouldn't it behoove Tom and
other resellers to have the units replaced directly? Or is it some
combination of factors, including the 004 plugs?
Anyway, thanks.
Kathleen

Kathleen, I found this out when speaking with them about my Alp. 
They had me check the plug. Perhaps this is something they 
recently discovered??? 
And, yes, I think it might behove them to contact all their dealers 
and make an exchange with each dealer, if they have any of the 
004 stock left. It would save them expense in the long run and 
make Tom's life easier.
Would think that Tom's most recent shipments would be fine.
Mike
On 14 Aug 2000, at 12:52, Kathleen Tinkel wrote:
<Snip>

I just got my Alp last Wednesday.
Anyway, thanks for letting me know. It's useful to have some concrete
marker - I had been thinking I just didn't 'get' the Alp's modus vivendi...
Kathleen

Mike,
Interesting find and thanks for sharing this info.  I checked the AC plug on
my Alp and the number is 951, so the "hot units" are not isolated to 004.  I
would have expected that number to be just some un-associated ID that the
power cord manufacturer uses to track their products.  Since SwissMar
doesn't use serial numbers on the Alp to track their units and know the date
of manufacture, I guess they have to look somewhere.
How's your replacement roaster compared to your previous "hot unit"?  How
much difference are you seeing in the average time it takes to get to 1st
crack?  Do you find that you are having a broader range on the front end of
time?
Coffenut   :^)

Coffeenut,
I wasn't clear...sorry. Just re-read my post below and it reads as if 
the 2nd unit is already here...it's not. The replacement roaster is on 
the way to me. It was shipped last Friday. I should have it on 
Thursday. Shall let you know the differences then. Mike
On 14 Aug 2000, at 17:38, coffenut wrote:
<Snip>

<Snip>
That really seems like more than a temperature thing. Assuming that you are 
still using the highly accurate butter and cream cheese scale to keep the 
mass relatively constant, it sounds more like maybe a problem with your doors 
(or flaps in techno talk). I really hope you are not taking this personal. If 
you roast another batch, check to make sure the flaps at the end of the 
roasting drum are closed at the beginning of the roast. When you (the Alp, 
that is) first enter the cooling cycle, open the lid and make sure the doors 
or flaps have opened all the way. If they don't open, the fan can't cool the 
beans and they WILL turn to charcoal. I had this happen twice, and I read 
where someone else has recently had the same experience. That sounds more 
like the troubles you may be having.
Enjoy,
Terry F

Terry F:
Thanks. I've just finished packing up the Alp - the company is picking it
up this week and giving me a new one. 
However, I'm archiving all these messages. I suspect it takes a village
(this one!) to get a roaster up to snuff.
According to the Swissmar person who spoke to me today, the 004 mark on the
plug is definitive, and they will replace those roasters with no other
information required. Ouch, for them. But I'm grateful that I'm only out
some 4.5 pounds of coffee!
I'll be watching *everything* on the new one, however - including the
doors, fans, motors, and phase of the moon.
Right now, I'm busy roasting some coffee with the FreshRoast, and may have
to actually buy some beans from Starbuck for tomorrow's breakfast!
KT

Kathleen, 
Feel much the same about this list as you do. Were it not for 
Coffenut, I'd probably have lost 5 lbs, myself. However, timing from 
first crack, I never had a bad result. My only loss was the first two 
batches I tried before I read CN's post about timing.
Mike
On 14 Aug 2000, at 20:11, Kathleen Tinkel wrote:
<Snip>

Mike and Kathleen,
Sorry to hear that your Alps have to meet their makers, but glad to hear
that SwissMar is still taking care of the customer.  It's funny, when I
think back to my "early Alp adventures", at one point I was actually ready
to throw in the towel and ask for a refund.  But then, I got a few messages
(words of encouragement) from other "seasoned roasters" and Alp users, so I
decided to buck-up and give it another try.  Thanks to others who helped me
get through those days, I'm enjoying home roasting like so many before
me...and glad I didn't quit.  Best wishes to you and I'll be interested in
hearing how your new units perform.
Coffenut  :^)

When I open the unit, if I'm still not sure I stick a teaspoon into the core
of the beast and bring out a few beans.  I may take several samples.
Also beware that small beans may fall though the holes and when they hit the
heater they instantly give a loud crack which can sound like first crack
(because it is for that bean, or those few that have fallen)
Bob C.
rcantor

Bob C.-
I haven't yet tried a small-bean coffee in the Alp, but can see that the
size of the drum's holes could be a problem. As it is, using the large
beans I have been, a few have gotten wedged into the holes (haven't seen
any that fell through, but see that it could happen).
You're bold! I was thinking that 'trying' some of the beans mid-roast might
be possible, once you decided to take the radical step of opening the door.
How long is the door open, typically, when you do this? And have you
noticed any bad effect from changes to temp in the middle?
Thanks.
Kathleen

Kathleen,
Have some experiences with this...have had small beans fall through and
others get stuck. All were burned to a crisp. However, none have effected
the roasts (that I can determine).
Someone else wrote about the possibility of the very first crack being false
due to a bean falling out of the drum. Sounds logical. Must not have had it
happen because each of my manual roasts finished as expected. Time will
tell.
Mike
<Snip>
the
<Snip>
beans I have been, a few have gotten wedged into the holes (haven't seen any
that fell through, but see that it could happen).

Mike:
I must say that from my experiences so far with the Alp, worrying about
single beans seems way down the list!
Once I get the replacement, I should get to learn the normal ways of the
beast... 
Kathleen

Bob, you sample the roast while it's running???  If so, please 
elaborate. Thanks, Mike
On 15 Aug 2000, at 0:57, Robert Cantor wrote:
<Snip>

Probably the first thing to come to mind is the phrase "If yer lookin' , yer 
not cookin'". That said, there is really a lot of mass to temper the quick 
look. You have 1/2 pound of coffee, over 18 ounces of hot steel roasting 
drum, plus the heating elements and the rest of the inside of the roaster. If 
you don't take the time to study the individual beans and name them or 
something, an occasional peek doesn't seem to have a lot of effect on the 
roast. But now you are going to have to wait until that new roaster arrives 
before you need to make that decision.
Good luck,
Terry
<Snip>

I think I may slightly slow the rate of rise of bean temp, but they are slow
enough to exchange heat that I don't think bean temp drops at all.  I peek
for a second or less, and when I want to sample, I open the lid, stick the
tsp in, catch a few beans, withdraw the spoon and close the lid.   If I
think I'm close to done I may withdraw several samples in a row without
closing the lid, but I doubt it's open for more than 7 seconds at most.  If
I think I'm almost done but need several samples it's because of the
variability of bean color, and when that happens slowing the roast is what
you want anyway to let the stragglers catch up.
Bob C.
rcantor

I do.   I stick a teaspoon in the center of the drum, concave side up  :)
and catch a falling bean.  or a tsp full.  The light inside the alp is
tricky, and a flashlight seems to make me think they are more done than they
really are.  so I withdraw the spoon, inspect, then throw those beans back
in.   If you've had so much caffeine your hands shake, you could upset the
drum.    ;)
Bob C.
rcantor