Bloomberg News Aug 30 2000 4:16PM Caffeine Gene Found; High-Flavor, Low-Jolt Java Seen London, Aug. 30 (Bloomberg) -- Scientists have discovered the gene that produces caffeine in coffee and tea, suggesting that plants could be altered to grow decaffeinated beans and leaves without sacrificing flavor. Current industrial processes to eliminate caffeine from coffee and tea also remove some of the taste. The discovery by researchers from Japan and Scotland suggests the possibility of decaffeinated beverages that can't be distinguished from the high- test variety. ``The cloning of the caffeine synthase gene is an important advance toward the development of transgenic caffeine-deficient (coffee and tea) plants,'' the researchers from wrote in tomorrow's edition of the journal Nature. No plants have yet been grown without the gene, though the researchers said that the production of such plants was a reasonable goal. Caffeine, best known as a stimulant, has also been liked to stomach problems, high blood pressure and anxiety Peace, Glen ICQ 34239611 P3 700 @ 933mhz Guillemot GF2 @ 245/375 Abit BX6 r2 1.8 volts |
Very interesting. I'd try it. But I doubt that any of our sources would take advantage of it. Genetic engineering is politically treacherous. On another note, I just noticed some caffeinated Altoid mints at the grocery store the other day. Maybe we can figure out a way to alter the genetic structure of mint plants to produce caffeine so that Altoids can be naturally caffeinated. :-) Don At 05:50 PM 8/30/00 -0400, you wrote: <Snip> |
Message text written by INTERNET:homeroast
<Snip>
London, Aug. 30 (Bloomberg) -- Scientists have discovered the gene that
produces caffeine in coffee and tea, suggesting that plants could be
altered
to grow decaffeinated beans and leaves without sacrificing flavor.
Current industrial processes to eliminate caffeine from coffee and tea also
remove some of the taste. The discovery by researchers from Japan and
Scotland suggests the possibility of decaffeinated beverages that can't be
distinguished from the high- test variety.
``The cloning of the caffeine synthase gene is an important advance toward
the development of transgenic caffeine-deficient (coffee and tea) plants,''
the researchers from wrote in tomorrow's edition of the journal Nature.
<
Hi all,
The researchers in Scotland and Japan would be duplicating work
already done
at the University of Hawaii, where genetically engineered caffiene-free
coffee plants are already being propagated.
The researcher in charge is John Stiles. One news report:
http://home.intekom.com/tm_info/rw80205.htm#Genetically |
Well, Bryce, if you read the story that you linked to in detail, you'll find that the two teams isolated two different genes. The Hawaii team isolated and disabled a gene that "catalyzes the critical first step in caffeine production." While the new team found the gene for caffeine synthase, which "is an enzyme that catalyses the final two steps in the caffeine biosynthesis pathway." So from a scientific viewpoint, at least, these are two different results. The end effect for the coffee drinker may be the same, but that remains to be seen. It does sound like the Hawaii team may be further along in actually applying their results. The Nature article may be found athttp://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/dynapage.taf?file=/nature/journal/v406/n6799/index.htmlSearch the page for the word "caffeine." =Spencer Bryce Decker wrote: <Snip> |
Message text written by INTERNET:homeroast <Snip> Well, Bryce, if you read the story that you linked to in detail, you'll find that the two teams isolated two different genes.< Thanks, Spencer. That's interesting and a reminder to go over things carefully before shooting one's mouth off on the net. -Bryce |
However, without your note, i would not have known about the previous work, so it was interesting and informative. =S Bryce Decker wrote: <Snip> |
Of note is that the two different methods will probably produce different tasting results. There will be different precursor molecules present depending on where the process is stopped. Stopping early on will probably give the taste closest to coffee as we know it, perhaps with a bitter element gone for those who think caffeine tastses bitter. Stopping the process at the end will leave whatever comes before caffeine around in much higher concentrations than before. Hope whatever it is tastes good :) Bob C. rcantor |
Robert Cantor wrote: <Snip> Caffeine does taste bitter. in fact, it's frequently used as a "standard" for bitterness when calibrating people's taste sensitivities. =Spencer |
The FDA claims that in soft drink concentrations, caffeine can't be tasted. Coke and Pepsi disagree. They have half the caffeine (if memory serves) as coffee, but others have much more (than C & P) Bob C. rcantor |
I just went to the Red Bull sports drink web site and found this line: "Caffeine is not a harmful substance in itself. The bitter ingredients and the roasting process are really responsible for coffee's being considered potentially harmful to one's health. Contrary to coffee, Red Bull contains pure - not roasted - caffeine." Of course they don't mention that their product is loaded with sugar, whereas coffee is sugar and calorie free. This sounds like (red) bull to me. mas <Snip> tasted. <Snip> as <Snip> |
Has anyone in the group had personal experience with any of the extra high caffeine beans? I'm wondering if the increase is really noticeable, and/or if the taste is inferior to the regular beans we get from SW. I could use more caffeine to get going in the morning, but if taste suffers, 'tain't worth it. Thanks, and saludos - Jim homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
<Snip> <Snip> If you're talking about robusto, which has almost twice the caffeine of arabica, then 'taint worth it. Natural dry processed, whole dried coffee has a little more than the usual washed coffee because it's not soaked in water at any point. That can certainly be tasty. Is there some new coffee being advertised as super high caffeine ? Saludos y un abrazo Charlie --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup |
On Sat, 25 May 2002 08:18:38 EDT Jcpxyz1 writes: <Snip> high <Snip> and/or if <Snip> more <Snip> worth it. Pick up a lb or two of the Classic Italian espresso... 12.5% robusta... you'll taste it, but it isn't objectionable at darker roasts. Definately more kick than, say, Monkey. -Tim In your heart you wonder which of these is true The road that leads to nowhere The road that leads to you GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:http://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast">http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
You're probably talking about Black tiger blend or one like it. They have taken regular beans and added xtra caffien to them, kind of decafination in reverse! I have never tried it, thought it might be a novelty for fun but never spent the money on it. I would guess it would taste ok, I've seen it sold at "coffee people" in the Portland airport, really stretching the memory here and I could have all the names wrong! Scott <Snip> homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
At 8:18 AM -0400 5/25/02, Jcpxyz1 wrote: <Snip> Well, any of the high-quality robustas will have about twice the caffeine of arabica, but since you only add about 1/8 robusta to an espresso blend, it's not going to affect it much. At SCAA, there was somebody pitching "Extreme Beans," which were increased caffeine. After having half a dozen espressi by the time I reached that part of the hall, it seemed such a terrible idea that I didn't pay much attention. Somebody on alt.coffee posted a link to a source of caffeine soap, so you'd take it in through your skin while you take a shower. You're young, aren't you? :) Best, David -- "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." --Dwight D. Eisenhower homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
Seems like I have to defend my coffee hobby occasionally with the non-coffee drinking wife. So, I occasionally do some research to blow her coffee/caffeine myths outta the water. Here's a tidbit I found at Coffee Science that my be useful to you, too. "There is no scientific evidence that caffeine produces anxiety in humans." The 'jitters' maybe, but 'anxiety', no. ;) Shhh.... don't tell her I said so. Dan homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
I will be out of the office starting 11/26/2002 and will not return until 12/02/2002. I will respond to your message when I return. homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast |
Anyone get in those conversations with another person about "great" coffee and they start talking about how they like it strong. Eventually they will bring up French Roast and Espresso Roast and of course, Charbucks. I do my best, from knowing a difference, to share knowledge and help bring about a deeper appreciation for coffee itself. When I share my roast, several have stated weak coffee. This makes me a bit sad in some ways. The only rebuttal I can think of is along the lines of what they think a strong coffee is, which without a doubt in their head has to taste like charcoal. (that is totally setting aside their improper brewing of a superior coffee in the first place, but that's besides the point) So, through thought and contemplation, I have come to a question that will hopefully bring about a change with the answer for my coffee friends that need help in appreciation. To what extent is the caffeine content effected by the roast level? That's to say, do darker roasts contain more caffiene? Herein I believe I can quell those seeking the charcoal for strength and offer them food for thought in asking them what they think a strong coffee is. This also places an assumption in that the caffeine content is the measure of the strength. In either case I wish to stir question as to their liking of the charcoal for the strength. It's my feeling that the bean contains X amount of caffeine, regardless of roast level. I do not know this for fact however, so I appeal to the coffee guru's:) Their knowledge and experience is without a doubt superior to mine:) I know that's probably been brought up before, thanks for your indulgence, Leo Changing the world one Moka Pot at time:) |
<Snip> 99% sure previous discussions backed by research data found was it's the other way around. Darker roast of same bean has less than lighter roast. Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before. |
Actually there is something called (i think) a Brix Meter which measures the
Total Dissolved Solids in a cup of coffee. This measures the true strength
of the coffee.
Others here probably know a lot more about this measuring method than I do
and could provide better details.
I, for one, however, have given up on trying to convert those who have been
brainwashed ("palatewashed"?) into thinking that the char roast is the
superior tasting coffee.
On the other hand it is rare that people have tried my coffee and thought
that it was relatively weak. Usually the reaction is the opposite. "Wow, I
usually don't like my coffee so strong but this is so smooth and unbitter"
is a very typical response that I get.
In terms of caffeine content the only possible result of darker roasting
would be to lessen the caffeine since the roasting process itself would
obviously not be creating caffeine.
Now overextraction, otoh, can dramatically increase caffeine levels all
other factors remaining constant since caffeine is one of the last chemicals
to be released in the extraction process.
I notice your signature says "changing the world one moka pot at a time."
Does this mean that you are brewing moka for for these people that claim it
is weak coffee? If so, then give up immediately. Anyone who would claim a
moka is weak even if the roast is a cinnamon can not be helped. Save your
strength and move on to less damaged palates. :)
On 7/6/06, Diablo wrote:
<Snip>
--
Don
|
Yep. For any given bean, roast length is inversely proportional to the amount of caffeine in the cup. In other words, your friends' "strong" coffee (roasted beyond recognition) packs less punch than your City+ with all of its origin character (and its caffeine content intact). On 7/6/06, miKe mcKoffee wrote: <Snip> |
So technically. if we could stomach the taste, if you REALLY want to get wired. stew some unroasted beans for a bit and drink the water. now THAT is a caffeine buzz for sure. Aaron |
Enough to get a goat to dance. On 7/6/06, Aaron wrote: <Snip> -- Don |
--Apple-Mail-1--9005536 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset -ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed On Jul 6, 2006, at 10:33 PM, Don Cummings wrote: <Snip> Or skip the water and just eat the unroasted beans. My dog eats any roasted beans that fall to the floor of my kitchen. (No, this probably isn't good for him.) He will not touch unroasted coffee. --Apple-Mail-1--9005536 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset O-8859-1 On Jul 6, 2006, at = 10:33 PM, Don Cummings wrote: |
Maybe you have an - er - aftermarket opportunity with your dog? People do sell all kinds of coffee... "David The Coffee Dude's Dood Coffee..." Civets got nothing on Beagles.... Brett On 7/6/06, David Schooley wrote: <Snip> -- Regards, Brett Mason HomeRoast Zassman |
--Apple-Mail-2--6506212 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset -ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed On Jul 6, 2006, at 10:59 PM, Brett Mason wrote: <Snip> He crunches the roasted ones, so I would have to sell them as pre- ground. Maybe I could train him to do a drip crunch, espresso crunch, or French Press crunch, depending on what the customer wanted. Do palm civets dance? <Snip> --Apple-Mail-2--6506212 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset O-8859-1 On Jul 6, 2006, at = 10:59 PM, Brett Mason wrote: |
I'll definitely say that chewing on a green coffee bean gives a surreal caffeine experience and it is 100% legal. It's definitely not the same caffeine buzz you get from roasted coffee. It's not tasty, but it isn't bad. Definitely not coffee flavored. The darker you roast, the less caffeine is present in the bean. The darker roasted beans are lighter in weight than lighter roasted beans, so if you are measuring caffeine by weight, the figure is different than by volume. ********************* Ed Needham® "to absurdity and beyond!" ed at homeroaster dot com (include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters) ********************* |
When in cherry form the seed (bean) is quite chewable, not nearly as hard as when dried to green. The cherry pulp is rather sweet, and of course was warned not to chew the seed 'cuz it's very bitter, so of course I did. Yes, major pucker power! Didn't taste bad per se' though. Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before. <Snip> |
I think most people referring to strong coffee has nothing to do with the caffine content its the roast. Most people think dark robust coffee has more caffine and we all know it has less then a lighter roast. Orgin has a part in this also as most coffee shops roast Africans dark and Sumatras which have huge body roasted dark will definetly give the person that taste of bold strong taste. Tell them to use more coffee in their coffee maker to make a stonger cup. But I'd bet if you roast some Sumatra into rolling 2nd crack that they would say now that is strong coffee. RK |
Do palm civets dance? ============== Well if you heat up the spoon they are standing in they might. Im picturing that old tom and jerry cartoon where he has the mouse in a spoon and holds him over a candle. However if you can train them to sit up and beg, you might have another marketing ploy there.... the palm rat that is not the dog. Aaron |
Just to be annoyingly technical, stewed green coffee would not get you that much caffeine, nor eating the green coffee, or anything like that. The green beans are just too hard and the caffeine to bound up in the matrix. You need the roasting to make it accessible. But if taste is not an issue, a very light city, just into 1st, would be your best bet. Those you could chew up and have the best bang for your buck. And while we are at it, THAT would be a strong cup of coffee (strongly acidic). At 20:30 7/6/2006, you wrote: <Snip> John Nanci AlChemist at large Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/ |
If you hold the roast constant, the amount of caffeine is going to be related to the 'strength' of the coffee. More ground coffee gets you a 'stronger' brew and more caffeine. If you've spent most of your life living with that relationship you're going to associate a darker roast with more caffeine even when that isn't the case simply because the darker roast tastes 'stronger'. We can all be re-educated but life-long habits take time to change. I've largely given up on my family, but I still have hopes for my co-workers :-) --rick Diablo wrote: <Snip> |
of course if you really need a caffeine fix, you can grind up a few no doz and throw them into your coffee and drink it. yeah... that werks fer me!! Aa AA aaa Aaarooon ......... |
Of course, you first roasted the no doz to FC didn't you? :) Steve On 7/7/06, Aaron wrote: <Snip> |
The Brix meter is called a refractometer and measures the sugar content of wine grapes, fruits or other sources. I would imagine that there is some kind of testing/metering for caffeine content in a lab context. Whether such a tool exists for the rest of us is debatable. I am curious as to how measurable the sugars in brewed coffee would be before additives.... Michael Holland Los Angeles City Archives VP, Cellarmasters |
Actually the meter to which I refer would be used to measure the particulate matter in the solution. This would give a relative index of coffee strength. There is no useful info derived from measuring the caffeine level in measuring the strength of a cup of coffee. Espresso has a very high Brix reading while having relatively low caffeine. On 7/7/06, Michael Holland wrote: <Snip> -- Don |
Thanks to all for your input. To answer another post, no, they are not stateing my Moka brew to be weak. They go home and brew my roast and come back with a weak statement. This is why I made that side note as to the methods used to brew the coffee. Thanks again guys, Leo --- Tom Ogren wrote: <Snip> |
I have had the same experience with coffee I have given away. About 1/3 think it is delicious. Another 1/3 say it tastes too weak. I attribute = this to the lack of the typical stale flavor found in canned coffees that is obviously missing from mine. The last 1/3 say it is too strong. These = people I believe taste all the extra flavor that they are not used to. Terry |