HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Consistency (14 msgs / 281 lines)
1) From: Michael Vanecek
Up 'til now, virtually all my roasts have been at done in a fairly
static ambient environment (78 degrees F. ). Given the timing the cracks
and so forth, it's relatively easy to get very consistent roasts and
consistent times. Yesterday my air-conditioner gave up it's ghost and I
got to apply the timing method to different ambient temperatures - one
roast occurred in the morning time when it was fairly cool - around 80
degrees. It took my Alp 14:38 to take the Mexican San Pablo to first
crack and I terminated the roast exactly three minutes later at 17:38. I
declared the roast a moderate Full City - dark but dry. Well, later on
in the afternoon my sister in-law requested some more coffee, so I
trudged back to the shop which was now just passing 90 degrees F. I
decided that I liked the roast level - it was a little darker than I had
originally targeted, but it produced a very fine brew, and I wanted to
challenge myself with consistency over a range of ambient temps. My goal
was to produce an identical level of roast as the first batch. First
crack occurred at 13:59, and I timed three minutes to cooldown, ending
the roast at 16:59. 10 degrees ambient temperature difference made a 39
second difference in the roast time. However, when the two batches are
put side-by-side, I could see no difference in the level of roast. I
consider that a successful experiment. 
For the San Pablo, which is a smaller bean, I discounted the first
erratic pops (one starting as soon as 12:and some change) because a very
few of the beans actually fall out through the holes in the drum into
the chaff tray or get stuck in the drum holes and roast at an
accelerated pace due to closer proximity to the burners and the fact
that they were no longer being agitated. It's fairly easy to recognize
the first crack though - the first crack usually announces itself with a
small group of pops and then a constant poppity-pop over a period of
time. On large bean coffees like the Kona or Zimbabwe, it's a little
easier - the first pop or two generally heralds the onset of first
crack. 
I'm tickled. I still can't wait for the air-conditioner repairman, but
it's neat applying some general timing rules to achieve a consistent
roast in spite of the differences in ambient temperature. I wish I had
the lap timer when I was using the West Bend Poppery II or the HWP. If
you're putting together a must-have list for Christmas (or sooner) make
sure a digital lap timer is on it - preferably one that can display two
times simultaneously. Heck, they're cheap enough nowadays. I'm surprised
Tom hasn't put one on his page (hint, hint :). 
Cheers,
Mike

2) From: Kathleen Tinkel
Mike:
Very interesting, though it's a bit depressing to have to add room temp to
the daunting list of variables. Now I'm wondering if I need to build a
little insulated chamber for the Alp to sit in while running... (just
kidding, just kidding!).
Kathleen

3) From: Michael Vanecek
Hee hee - similar has been suggested for those poor souls who has to
roast outside or in the garage in the middle of winter. Ambient temp
certainly does make a difference, but within a 20 degree range - 70 to
90 it's not too catastrophic and by timing the roast from the first
crack consistent roasts can be had. Cooler than 70 - adding a little to
the normal post-1st-crack time would be recommended depending on how
much cooler it got, and warmer than 90 or so you would probably want to
take a little off the post-1st-crack time. For instance - my favorite
coffee roasts to perfection at 3 minutes past first crack. For a
comfortable range of temperature that works okay. If it gets too cool,
the roast is slowed significantly to where 3 minutes would produce a
lighter than targeted roast so adding some time to compensate for the
longer roast would be the thing to do. Vice-versa for hotter ambient
temperatures. This is what outside roasters have to contend with, but it
does make you accutely aware of what's going on - it's easy to get
complacent when roasting time after time in a fairly static ambient
temperature with a narrow range of coffees. It's interesting applying
all this theory into practice.
Kathleen Tinkel wrote:
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4) From: Karen Nakamura
 
Ambient temperature:
I roast in my garage. Now that it's getting cool here in Maine (temperature 
dropping below 10C at night), I've been worried about my roasting. I've 
"built" a little hut for my HWP out of a milk crate and some boards. 
"Built" is too grandiose, it's just that the boards lie so that most of the 
HWP output is contained in a one cubic meter enclosure. I pre-heat the HWP 
by running it for a minute or two before putting the beans in.
So far it works, but we'll see what happens when it hits -20C.
KN

5) From: Todd Smith
I'm considering a similar idea using an extra kitchen cabinet that I have
sitting around.  My thought is too provide a positive exhaust fan to pull
all of the roasting exhaust through a vent to the outside.   The negative is
that it will make it more difficult to hear the cracks.   At this point,
I've got enough data on my HWP to simply set the dial and let it run on it's
own for most of the coffees I roast on a regular basis.  Maybe I need to
install a microphone inside the box, and run it through an equalizer set to
pick up the cracking sounds?   I know that I don't want to try roasting
outdoors this winter, nor do I want to hear the grief from my family when I
roast in the kitchen with the vent hood.
Todd
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6) From: Tom & Maria
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This is what I did before I had a store to stink up with smoke. (well ...
its not a stink since I love the smell). But those cool temperatures are
coming and I am sure there will be a lot of new brainpower added to the
age-old roasters problme of ambient air temperature....
T
                  "Great coffee comes from tiny roasters"
           Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting  -  Tom & Maria
                     http://www.sweetmarias.com

7) From: miketom
---- Begin Original Message ----
From: Tom & Maria 
Sent: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 23:24:38 -0400
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: + Consistency
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(temperature
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I've
.........major snip........
<Snip>
---- End Original Message ----
Ouch.  Guess I shouldn't worry about my kitchen ambient running from 
78 F summer to 68F winter too much, huh?  I think the newer HWPs run 
a little cooler than the older ones, according to my experience and 
posts I have been seeing.  It takes 9:30+ to start seeing any oil on 
the beans.....although a roast at 9 min. will develop a little oil 
after a couple days.  All in all, I'm quite happy with this little 
jewel, it would be nice if it was a little bigger, but......My local 
Costco has installed a roaster in the store; fully vented so no trace 
of odor.  They sell a roasted lb. for ~$6.50, Sumatra, Costa Rican, 
Columbian, etc.  But I wanted to try a sample, what they give you is 
slightly brown hot water.  Yuk, is that how people really like their 
coffee?
Mike

8) From: Kent Pierce
 
Todd,
I posted some pics awhile back of a roasting cabinet that I made from a 
utility wall cabinet for the HWP. My goal was to achieve greater 
temperature consistency and to control the smoke/odor. It seems to do both 
pretty well. You can find the pics at:http://homepage.interaccess.com/~pierces/There are also some second-by-second temp profiles for my HWP and a 
comparison of roasting times for different ambient temperatures.
I recently modified the cabinet to handle the Alpenrost (not kidding at all 
Kathleen!)and have posted a picture of the new mods on the same site .
There is also a temp profile for a couple of consecutive roasts in the alp 
which might be of interest to all.
..........................Kent
At 10:33 PM 9/18/00 -0400, Todd wrote:
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9) From: Todd Smith
You've done exactly what I was envisioning.  Thanks for posting the message
with the URL
Since you have the temperature profiles, I'm assuming that's what you roast
by as opposed to sound.  Can you hear the cracks when either unit is running
inside of the cabinet?
Thanks again!
  Todd
<Snip>

10) From: Kent Pierce
 
Todd,
Like a lot of guys my age I have 'nam ears -- a big high freq deficit from 
being way too close to a variety of things that went BOOM! -- but I don't 
have any trouble hearing first or second crack. I did have to learn to 
distinguish between beans hitting the side of the glass and early stages of 
2nd crack in the HWP. I roast by any piece of info that I can get -- sight, 
sound, temp  -- and unless you fine tune the air pressure to a gnat's 
eyelash, there will still be enough smell for you to tell when the shift 
into 2nd crack occurs, as well.
..........................Kent
At 09:04 AM 9/19/00 -0400, Todd wrote:
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11) From: Kathleen Tinkel
Kent:
Wonderful pictures - very interesting. I'm roasting indoors so don't have
the ambient temp problems you and some others worry about. On the other
hand, it would be nice to contain the mess a bit - I roast on top of my
stove to take advantage of the hood; no matter what I do, chaff gets in the
burners. And I can't cook and roast at the same time.
Thanks also for the data on the back-to-back Alps roasts. Did the beans
also taste about the same from both roasts?
Kathleen
------

12) From: OligoNuk
In a message dated 9/18/00 9:29:02 AM, KTINKEL writes:
<< Very interesting, though it's a bit depressing to have to add room temp to
the daunting list of variables. Now I'm wondering if I need to build a
little insulated chamber for the Alp to sit in while running... (just
kidding, just kidding!).
 >>
Just read this one - apparently these variables are aberrant.
-Todd L.  ALP (the one and only)

13) From: OligoNuk
In a message dated 9/18/00 10:27:01 PM, tom writes:
<< This is what I did before I had a store to stink up with smoke. (well ...
its not a stink since I love the smell). But those cool temperatures are
coming and I am sure there will be a lot of new brainpower added to the
age-old roasters problme of ambient air temperature.... >>
Time to start brewing Beer!
8-)
-Todd L.

14) From: Kent Pierce
 
Kathleen,
I don't have notes about the taste of those particular roasts, but it has 
been my experience that sequential roasts in the alp have the same flavor 
if taken to the same stage in the roast (in this case 2nd crack and the 
same temperature). Even though the 2nd roast took a minute less than the 
first roast, the slope of the time/temp curve is virtually identical for 
the two roasts. By comparison, the time/temp slope for the HWP is initially 
much steeper and the taste of a roast taken to 2nd crack is much different.
......................Kent
At 11:24 AM 9/19/00 -0400, Kathleen wrote:
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