HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Espresso machine choices, please assist. (8 msgs / 205 lines)
1) From: Derek and Pat Savanella D.B.A. Heavenly Beans
If all one has had for an espresso machine is a steam toy, and as many on
this list and others would say that coffee shop espresso is hit or miss, how
does one come to recognize good espresso? I think I'd like to invest in a
superautomatic but if the above are true I wouldn't know if I have a taste
for espresso or not when a good drip machine will do nicely (for both taste
and wallet). Any thoughts besides a road trip?

2) From: Rick Farris
Personally, I've never had top-notch espresso from a super-auto.  Even
the fancy ones they're putting in Starbucks now.  On the other hand,
I've had really, really good Café Crèmas from my Solis 5Ks.  
If you buy a super-auto for espresso I think you'll be disappointed.
Buy a super-auto to make Café Crèma!
-- Rick

3) From: jim gundlach
Unless you have someplace to try a known properly done espresso, you 
are going to have to rely on second hand information from sources like 
this list and any other sources you have access to.  My own experience 
is one of trying several things and finding that many of them did 
indeed improve the quality of the coffee.  When I moved from the steam 
toy to a Gaggia Coffee, things got somewhat better.  When I moved from 
stale store bought gourmet beans to home roasted greens from Sweet 
Maria's things got a lot better.  When I went from a blade grinder to 
the Solis grinder things got better for a while.  When I went from the 
Gaggia to a SL-90 things improved again.  I experienced another major 
increase in quality of taste  when I went from the Solis grinder to the 
Rocky. Then I had some more improvement when I went from the SL-90 to a 
Miss Silvia.  Also when I was working with all these tools, I was 
learning how to work with coffee and what to look for in taste.   One 
thing to remember is that there is not just one great coffee out there. 
  There are a lot of very different flavors that can be extracted from 
the different beans by different roasting and brewing methods.  
However, it will not happen just by buying the best and greatest 
gadget, you are going to have to play with the beans and toys or tools 
for a while.
Jim Gundlach
On Monday, August 4, 2003, at 09:38  AM, Derek and Pat Savanella D.B.A. 
Heavenly Beans wrote:
<Snip>

4) From: Greg Scace
Depending on where you live, some folk here can make recommendations on 
places that are likely to make you a good espresso so that you can 
experience their version of it.
On the other hand, your not likely to produce great espresso with a 
superautomatic.  My guess is that you'll produce something on a par with 
Starbux.
Beyond the question of whether or not the intensity of espresso appeals to 
you (my wife dislikes straight espresso shots and feels the taste is too 
intense, but loves milk based drinks and Americanos), there are many taste 
experiences available to the home espresso enthusiast.  I make  straight 
shots out of damn near everything that I roast and enjoy the taste of 
nearly all of the single variety coffees that I also enjoy as drip / vacuum 
pot coffee.  Bitterness attributed to espresso often can be blamed on stale 
beans, dirty equipment and lousy technique.  Of course we all have the 
freshest beans since we're all home roasters here right?  AFA technique 
goes, it really ain't that hard to learn.  And since we care about coffee, 
we do keep our works clean right?  Chances are that you'll enjoy the 
experience once you take the plunge.
-Greg
At 10:38 AM 8/4/2003 -0400, you wrote:
<Snip>

5) From: Derek and Pat Savanella D.B.A. Heavenly Beans
Greg,
I think I have a similar situation, I have had some espresso I thought
tasted good and enjoyed it while the wife does not-she'll also drink some
capp's and Americanos and drip. That's another reason I considered the auto,
choice of beverage and different wake-up times.
Derek

6) From: Thompson Owen
You know, you are definitely on the right track - find an espresso 
you really like, and THEN figure out what it takes to make it at 
home. I think a lot of people rush out and get equipment before 
really knowing what the goal is, what the cup they want to create (or 
recreate is). Now, in terms of the specifics it is hard to tell 
someone exactly what they should look for. You can say that espresso 
is 1-2 oz, but I dont think there is anything wrong with liking the 
tall espresso where you run more water through it. Its a matter of 
taste and in fact a long espresso is popular in italy, as a very 
short one or ristretto is. In any case, an espresso without lasting 
crema, is a disappointment for most people, since crema is part of 
the espresso apellation and indicates that the variable of 
temperature, time, grind, and pressure are in the right ranges. In 
terms of flavors, alot of people like very sweet espresso made from 
straight shots of milder coffees, as do I. But in some ways an 
espresso without a strong bittersweet and a very long lasting 
aftertaste isnt very similar to italian espresso. So thats my .02 
cents. You have the unpleasant job of needing to visit every decent 
looking coffee place and trying their espresso until you find 
something that is yoor ultimate cup .. poor you!
Tom
<Snip>
-- 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                   "Great coffee comes from tiny roasters"
            Sweet Maria's Home Coffee Roasting  -  Tom & Maria
                      http://www.sweetmarias.com                Thomspon Owen george

7) From: DJ Garcia
I notice you have Optimum Online service. If you're in the Long Island
area, send me an e-mail and maybe I can provide you with one point of
reference.
DJ

8) From: joshm
Derek, I empathize 100%. I don't think I have had the chance to know what I
am missing when all I use is my Kaliffa Moka Pot and the stuff in the shops
is never tops. I have had a couple of espressos in shops where I can
appreciate a difference, the smoothness, etc.-but nothing to really blow my
mind.
I thought that investing a few hundred $$ without know what I could get out
of the machine would be a big risk-so along came an offer for a 3 year old
Gaggia Classic at $100. I was the first caller on this-but due to my
procrastination (convincing the wife and checking out possible rust problems
on Gaggias-I lost a chance to begin my espresso journey.
I will be in Italy at the end of the month and hope to at least  learn what
the goal is!
best, myron


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