Many thanks to all those who responded so helpfully to my question about 
espresso roasting and blending.
At 09:26 PM 12/24/2000 -0500, you wrote:
<Snip>
What do you use for storage of roasted beans? Do you want as small as 
possible a jar, completely filled or something larger than the quantity to 
be stored?
Sheldon W. Halpern

 
Use either a glass canning jar with replaceable lids or the Ziplock bag 
with a one way valve from Sweet Maria's.  Size depends upon your roast 
size.  For the HWP, an 8 oz canning glass jar will hold most 3 oz roasts, 
but that is dependent upon the density of the bean - some beans are less 
dense and take up more space for the same weight.  The Ziplock bags come in 
either an 8 oz or 16 oz size.  I would think that the best thing to do is 
to just put enough roasted beans into the container that is enough for one 
session and that depends upon how much coffee or espresso you wish to 
make.  A three ounce output from the HWP seems to be good for about four 
double shots of espresso.  Although that number might come down to three if 
one is using closer to 16 grams in the portafilter, with the fourth shot 
being a little bit lighter.  The numbers may not seem to add up, but there 
is waste from shot to shot, if one grinds immediately prior to the 
shot.  Again, this is bean and roast dependent.
Carl
At 11:13 PM 12/24/00 -0500, you wrote:
<Snip>

If you use your beans quickly enough (within a week or less), you don't
need to fuss too much. I use stainless steel cannisters with clamp lids,
each capable of holding just about half a pound of roasted coffee, and I
don't have much of a staling problem even though air enters as I use the
coffee.
I'm only fairly fussy, however. I know others are more compulsive about
storing the beans. I prefer to roast often, and drink within three days.
Kathleen

Like Kathleen, I have three small glass jars with clamp lids.  I rarely get
to the third jar.  I use a Fresh Roast and prefer to roast often.  I have no
idea what coffee on day four or five is like - we never have it last that
long :O)

 
Thanks to the Abbotts and Kathleen for their helpful and realistic responses.
I want to enjoy the roasting, brewing and drinking and not make either a 
fetish or a career out of them.
Sheldon W. Halpern
The Ohio State University College of Law

Hey gang, just roasted about 2 lbs. of different varieties, to take on a =
trip to Maryland to see my folks. this coming week end. weather report =
not good, calling for sleet and snow through North Carolina, Virginia, =
and Maryland. I may not get to go this weekend. I want the coffee to be =
as fresh as possible. I guess I will vacuum seal and freeze. I was =
wondering ( chime in anytime Mike McCoffee) when I take it out of the =
freezer should I try to keep it frozen in a cooler or just let it thaw =
on its own?
Ron Kyle
Anderson SC
rnkyle mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

Thanks John, I due have a Food Saver Vac sealer. The weather has changed =
and they are no longer calling for real bad weather Saturday, so Ill be =
ok and plan to head off to Maryland sat. morning, with Vac sealed beans =
.. thanks again
Ron Kyle
Anderson SC
rnkyle

Thanks Mike. I will be able to go sat as the bad weather forecast has =
changed. so the beans vac sealed will be only 4 days old. and should be =
just fine.
Do you keep your beans frozen during the trip, and if you do, how do you =
do this?
Ron Kyle
Anderson SC
rnkyle

Thanks Rick, I rarely freeze coffee, but will give it a try, so I can =
roast one night a week, instead of 3 nights.  thanks
Ron Kyle
Anderson SC
rnkyle

Ron, If you vacuum seal it should be good for a couple of weeks without
freezing.

<Snip>
freezer
<Snip>
Thanks Mike     :O)
<Snip>homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

From: "R.N.Kyle" 
Hey gang, just roasted about 2 lbs. of different varieties, to take on a
trip to Maryland to see my folks. this coming week end. weather report not
good, calling for sleet and snow through North Carolina, Virginia, and
Maryland. I may not get to go this weekend. I want the coffee to be as fresh
as possible. I guess I will vacuum seal and freeze. I was wondering ( chime
in anytime Mike McCoffee) when I take it out of the freezer should I try to
keep it frozen in a cooler or just let it thaw on its own?
For travel I freeze 'em. Take the first pot I'll grind in the morning out
the night before to thaw. Others I try to let thaw at least 15min before
grinding. Works for me. YMMV
MM;-)
Variable Variac Rockin' Rosto Roasting
Miss Silvia brewin'
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

John wrote:
<Snip>
I vacuum seal and freeze regularly, and I think it's a good thing. Generally
speaking I freeze everything I'm not going to use in a couple of days.  I
normally roast a weeks worth at a time and seal it up in 10- or 12- bags.  I
keep two day's worth unfrozen and then take out a day's worth every day.  At
about the one-week spot the frozen batches have outgassed (telling from the
puffiness of the bags) about the same as unfrozen coffee outgases in two
days.  I think that freezing *significantly* retards the staling of coffee
if it is vacuumed.
Be sure to let the beans warm to room temperature before unsealing them.
Like I said, I take out the beans a day, or two, ahead of time.
-- Rick
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

OK, you've talked me into at least trying it that way.  I have just had some
coffee go flat on me that was only out of the bag for 3 days.  I need to cut
down on the storage size as well. The Mason Jars are about right for two
days worth of coffee for us so I've been storing the vacuum bags in 1/2
pound lots - Way too much!  As I deal with the freshness, I have become more
aware of advantages of a manual or semi-automatic espresso machine.  The
Winter-Texans are back ( lines everywhere) so I'm pouring a lot more for
drop-ins.  But the La Pavoni is beginning to look better and better :))
John - freezing my beans off!

From: "R.N.Kyle" 
Thanks Mike. I will be able to go sat as the bad weather forecast has
changed. so the beans vac sealed will be only 4 days old. and should be just
fine.
Do you keep your beans frozen during the trip, and if you do, how do you do
this?
Packed in dry-ice to keep frozen...only kidding:-) I put them in the freezer
when we get to our destination...
MM;-)
Variable Variac Rockin' Rosto Roasting
Miss Silvia brewin'
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

    Perhaps there's a link on SM that someone can send me but I've been 
looking around the site and haven't found it. I know I've read this info 
somewhere but don't remember.
    How long do folks who know more than me consider green coffee good 
for? (assuming of course we aren't aging it)
    What are the best ways to store it. Out of heat and out of sunlight 
I've got but I see some folks recomending burlap bags over the ziplocks 
I use.
-Aaron

I don't usually keep green beans for more than a year and I simply put 
them in a canister and put the tag from the SweetMaria's bag on the 
lid.  Others put more effort into it with vacuum bags and such.  I live 
in the humid south and the storage area is not air conditioned so I 
have less than ideal storage conditions.  I know I would have to take 
better care of them if I wanted them to last longer.  Instead I just 
roast and consume before they get too old.  One of the advantages of 
green beans is that they keep well without much special care.
Aging is not simply letting the beans get old, they have to be kept at 
rather precise humidity and temperatures as well as turned at regular 
intervals.  I've aged moonshine over night by adding a little almost 
burnt sugar, can't do that with coffee.
Jim Gundlach
La Place, Alabama
On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 10:12  PM, Aaron Forster wrote:
<Snip>

In all my years of homeroasting (27 years), I've never had a problem with
beans going bad.  I've occasionally noticed that beans stored in cloth only
will dry out and roast differently, but the flavor is still similar (I've not
done detailed critiques of differences).  Generally, green coffee beans store
best at temps and humidity that are in the human comfort zone.  Extremes in
either direction can degrade or ruin bean quality over time.
I am currently storing green in the plastic bags they came in, and put into
plastic storage containers from Wal-Mart.  I bought large one (Sterilite
'Show Offs') that will hold 20 pounds of beans, smaller ones that will hold
two 5 pound bags, and smaller ones (Rubbermaid 'SNAPtopper) that will hold
one five pound bag.  They fit three wide in a metal shelving unit in my
basement stairwell.  The air there is partially conditioned, and never
freezes or gets extremely hot.  It probably stays between 40F and 80F all
year long.  The good part is that the containers are 'really' inexpensive,
costing between $2 and $4.  It works well for me, and can store about 150
pounds of beans.  Two shelving units could store more .
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!http://www.homeroaster.comed
****************************************
**********************************************

On 7/19/03 at 1:11 PM by ed (Ed Needham):
<Snip>
We buy coffee in hundred pound lots and have it shipped in two 50 pound bags so it can go through UPS.  It comes in thick plastic bags that are just tied off.  We place these bags in big Sterilite containers, but don't worry about sealing them.  In our home office we have three green containers, the bottom two with coffee, the top one with office supplies.  
Since we buy such big lots of coffee, we only average one or two orders a year but we've never had any problems with the coffee going stale either in our office or out in the garage.  At nine months the coffee is just as good as it was when fresh, and who knows how long it was in transit.
Next time around we'll probably go with Sweet Maria's 20-pound lots since the pricing looks competitive and we can get some more variety.  I guess we still have about 50 pounds of our last purchase left (and got a bunch of samples at a recent coffee show here in Seattle)...
One thing that I like about buying the really big lots is that we get the big burlap sack that the lot came in, but how many big burlap sacks do we really need :)
[fletcher]

snip on Ed's post:
<Snip>
Has anybody tried storing greens in a one gallon glass jar. I have two and
found that they will store 5 lbs easyly. I was wondering if there was a
chance of condensation inside the jar. I store (mostly vac sealed) in a
storage cabinet in a climite about 74 degrees, with 50 to 60 perceny
humidity.
Ron
rnkyle
Gas grill drum roasting
in South Carolina

Ron needs a class in spelling, dosen't he?
Ron
rnkyle
Home Roasting in SC

Tom has a supply that he will sell to you ;-)
fletcher sandbeck wrote:
<Snip>

Ron,
    I store in half gallon, gallon, and two and a half gallon jars with 
no trouble.
Jim Gundlach
La Place, Alabama
On Saturday, July 19, 2003, at 01:15  PM, Ron wrote:
<Snip>

Jim Gunlach reply post:
<Snip>
Thanks Jim, I only have 2 now, but will be looking for a few more. I did not
know they had 2.5 gallon jars. I beleive one could store 15 lbs in one of
those.
Ron
rnkyle
Gas Grill Drum Roasting
in Anderson SC

--- jim gundlach  wrote:
<Snip>
 Glass jars are fine for bean storage, but best kept in the
dark.
  Charlie
=====
Brick Oven Roasting in British Columbia
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!http://sbc.yahoo.com

On Saturday, July 19, 2003, at 01:40  PM, Ron wrote:
<Snip>
It holds most of a 20 pound bag.  It is a leftover from home brew days.
Jim Gundlach

Thanks goes out to Steven, and the rest of the list members that replied to
the storing in glass question.
Thanks again
Ron
rnkyle
Gas Grill Drum Roasting
in Anderson SC

Hello all.  I'm new to the list, just roasting my first green beans
yesterday.  Wow - what a great first experience!  I think I lucked out
having my first batch turn out so well with my unmodified Poppery II.
Anyway, in thinking through this new hobby of mine, it looks like I'm =
going
to need a lot of different containers.  I'd appreciate some advice on
storage:
- Green Beans - just got an 8 pack sampler from Sweet Maria's in plastic
bags.  I like the idea of having multiple, small batches of different =
green
beans. The vacuum sealing sounds good for long term storage, but =
probably
not good if you need to frequently open the container.  Should I be =
using
cloth bags, or is it OK to keep them in the original plastic bags =
assuming I
won't need to store them more than a month or so?
- Roasted Beans - probably need 3 or 4 containers for different roasts =
to
start with to do some comparisons. I'm thinking of sealed masonry or =
glass
jars for these.
- Left over ground coffee - hate to waste anything.  Once I measure out
enough for brewing, I'll have some left over. Or is it best to throw it =
out?
Thanks in advance,
-Gregg Reno

1. Don't think you need to store your green beans in cloth bags. IMO the 
plastic bags will be fine for short term storage. I have some of my beans in cloth 
and some in plastic but store them all in a sealed container.
2. I like to put my beans into foil valve bags while they are degassing then 
store in a mason jar.
3.I don't save my left over grounds I put them in the bucket I store my used 
grounds in. I like to put my used grounds in our garden.
George Holt

On Jul 16, 2004, at 8:32am, Gregg Reno wrote:
<Snip>
If you measure it out before grinding, you won't have any left over.
John Blumel

Gregg, see my humble opinions inserted at relevant points below.
On Jul 16, 2004, at 7:32 AM, Gregg Reno wrote:
<Snip>
The plastic bags are fine for storing up to a year.
<Snip>
For use within a week or so, no special storage is needed unless you 
are in a bad environment.
Trying to keep longer than a week defeats the purpose of home roasting.
<Snip>
Add it to the compost, ground coffee starts to taste stale in less than 
an hour.  All used and old coffee should be added to a compost pile or 
added to the mulch in gardens or flower beds.   It is great plant food, 
the largest part of the seeds were made by nature to be food for a baby 
plant after all, and should not be added to the trash or sewage 
streams.
<Snip>
Your are welcome.
Jim Gundlach

Welcome to the List and congratulations on a successful first roast! Answer
to questions below.

Thanks - I appreciate everyone's suggestions!
Now to roast my second batch...
-Gregg

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Very nice recycle George.  I was thinking for the extreme coffee aroma =
lover perhaps one could also use additional old, undrinkable grounds by =
placing them inside a pillow.  Like catnip for coffee aficionados! 
Leslee

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
This is probably a very silly question, but being totally new to home
roasting I'll post it anyways.
 
What's the best way to deal with the beans just after they come out of
the roaster? Do you place them immediately into an air-tight container
or do you use some special bags to store them in? I notice that they
develop slightly oily surface in the air-tight container after couple of
days even though the roast wasn't particularly dark - is that normal?
 
Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Martina

On 3/17/06, Martina Augustinova  wrote:
<Snip>
e
<Snip>
you
<Snip>
ly
<Snip>
the
<Snip>
I like the one-way valve bags SM sells.  Especially for beans I've
bought several pounds of.  I just label them with a permanent marker. 
Then wash and reuse...  Some people use glass jars, others just use
ziplock bags I think.  Oxygen, direct sunlight and moisture seem to be
the big killers.
Aaron Peterson
Versailles, KY

I dump mine into a collander to cool some, then pour out the beans onto my
kitchen's granite counter for a fast cool down.
Then I load into large mason jars with the latch and rubber seal...
Regards,
Brett
On 3/17/06, Martina Augustinova  wrote:
<Snip>
e
<Snip>
you
<Snip>
ly
<Snip>
the
<Snip>
--
Regards,
Brett Mason
HomeRoast
      __]_
   _(( )_  Please don't spill the coffee!

Hi Aaron,
Thanks for your reply - I'll see if I can get the bags somewhere here -
ordering from the US is a real pain. Not because of the US companies,
but they smack a huge tax bill on the goods once they enter Europe :-( 
I ordered an Espro tamper from the States recently and paid taxes that
were the price of the tamper.
I've got some air-tight tins for now, that will have to do.
Regards,
Martina

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Hi Brett,
Thanks for your help - I was doing more or less the same :-)
Good to know I wasn't anything wrong.
 
Regards,
Martina

Martina,
Good questions.  After roasting, I dump into a colander and stir the
warm beans in front of a fan to cool them quickly.  Then, they go into
a jar - loosely lidded for 24 hours for degassing, then tightly
closed.
People use a variety of things - zip-lock bags, one-way valve bags,
paper bags, jars, etc. for storage.  The main thing is to keep the
beans cool, dry and away from direct light.  If you're using your
beans within a week of roasting, storage isn't as critical.  If you're
roasting and using the beans over several weeks, you probably want to
keep them in an airtight container.
Oil appearing a few days after roast is a completely normal development.
Hope this is helpful.
--
Brent
Roasting in an SC/TO & i'Roast2

On 3/17/06, Martina Augustinova  wrote:
<Snip>
e
<Snip>
you
<Snip>
ly
<Snip>
the
<Snip>
Hi Martina,
Welcome.
After roasting, I put the beans in SMs valve bags for at least 24 hrs
labeled with china markers..black for caffeinated and white for decaf.
 Then as my stainless steel wire flip top containers become empty from
the previous batches, I transfer the coffee to these using the china
markers again to label them.  I use a Mr. Clean Magic Eraser sponge to
wipe off the china marker label.  Works beautifully!
The oil on your beans comes from how long you roast the beans.  You
can have oil even if the color isn't dark, depending on the type of
bean you're roasting.  Monsooned Malabar "Elephant" is oily at a light
milk chocolate color during second crack, while other beans will
appear quite dark.
Take care,
Ann

On 3/17/06, an iconoclast  wrote:
<Snip>
I like the china marker idea.  I may have to try that myself...
Aaron Peterson
Versailles, KY

Hi Brent - and Ann :-)
Thank you both for your help. I can see a little "something" I didn't
pay attention to.
It's probably not the best to put the beans into a container that's
tightly closed right away - and that's why you both mention either
loosely lidded container or valve bags. I closed the lid tightly right
away :-(
I'll see if I can get these bags here (Europe) - they sell roasted
coffee in these bags, perhaps they might sell me some empty ones - we're
still a little behind you, you know :-) Or I'll try closing the lid
loosely for 24 hours and perhaps I won't need to get the bags.
Thanks!
Regards,
Martina

On 3/17/06, Martina Augustinova  wrote:
<Snip>
What I've gathered from people on the list is that the only reason to
worry about sealing a container right away is because some gas will be
released from the beans 24-48 hours or so after roasting causing some
pressure buildup.  As long as you're not worried about your chosen
container exploding or rupturing, I don't think it makes any
difference.  Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.  So a ziplock bag
should be fine for instance.  Or tupperware.  Some folks might be
paranoid about glass jars, but I think there's not *that* much
pressure.  Of course, I haven't tried it myself either.
Anyway, good luck!
Aaron

Thanks Aaron - have been looking for the valve bags in Europe, but there
is only one place in the UK selling them and only in one size - I don't
get it why the online shopping for coffee/accessories is so limited
here.
I thought the valve bags were meant to let the beans "breath" or
something. I'll go and see whether SM ships to Europe :-) In the mean
time - ziplock bags will be just fine.
Thanks,
Regards,
Martina

On 3/17/06, Martina Augustinova  wrote:
<Snip>
The valve bags let the carbon dioxide out that the beans give off as
they rest, but don't let oxygen in.  That's pretty much the whole
story to the beset of my knowledge.  There's nothing wrong with the
carbon dioxide staying in the bag though that I know of...
Aaron Peterson
Versailles, KY

Aaron-
You're exactly right about the valved bags. They exist because they weigh
very little and they won't break. Without the valve, the CO2 would burst th=
e
bag or split the seal.
I suspect that the valved Ziploc bags are a bit of a gimmick, albeit a good
idea. The Ziplocs are often used and put up without being perfectly
resealed, although the gaffe wouldn't allow any real air exchange. Does
anybody really use their coffee bean Ziplocs as Hacky Sacks?
It's neat to store the fresh roasted beans in closed fruit jars. No valve
necessary- it gives the most incredible Whoosh when you open it after
several hours. That really impresses friends to whom I give jars of fresh
roasted beans.
Cheers -RayO, aka Opa!
Ever wonder why "vacuum packed" coffee blows out when you first open the
seal?

On 3/17/06, Aaron Peterson  wrote:
<Snip>
Those bags are ok, and I've not found better, but I've had a few split at
the seams where the zipper is such that they were no longer usable...
--
Steven Hay
hay.steve -AT- gmail.com

Here's a "resting" theory.  We know that flavors change as the roasted
beans rest.  Some of that may be due to oxygenation of the compounds
responsible for flavor and aroma.  If so, letting the beans rest
*unsealed and unvacuumed* for a day might quicken or enhance the
maturation process (possibly at the expense of flavor longevity.)
I guess I'm going to have to wade into a book about flavor and aroma
chemistry as pertains to coffee.  Any suggestions?
Tom in GA.

Tom,
Before you spend too much time on research there was a very extensive
research posted here recently.
The poster was: Aaron   and his trhead was called
"To Vac or Not to Vac" in which he tested beans stored in various container=
s
for 4 weeks. Very interesting!
-Marc
On 3/18/06, Tom Bellhouse  wrote:
<Snip>

Well, y'all are partially right, but there's more to the story.  Back in the 
seventies, when coffee was typically kept in glassine lined kraft paper 
bags, there was no need for a one way valve.  The bags were porous enough 
that they would not hold any pressure at all.  When mylar bags were invented 
and began being used for coffee beans, these new, airtight bags were popping 
and beans were spilling.
Some way to relieve pressure inside the sealed bag was needed to be able to 
ship the bags through changing altitudes.  If beans were roasted and sealed 
at a or near sea level and then taken in an airplane at 40,000 feet in a non 
pressurized cargo container, the bags would quickly burst.  Also, shipping 
from low to high elevations would puff up the sealed bags packed inside 
shipping boxes and the boxes would burst.
Well, poking a pinhole in each bag worked just fine, but how unglamorous! 
Yes, a tiny pinhole would allow air to enter the bag, and after a couple 
weeks staling would occur.  The one way valve was invented, partially as a 
way to keep pressure down in the bag, and partially as a marketing tool. 
This invention allowed CO2 to escape but did not allow oxygen to enter the 
sealed bag.  With the one way valve, staling still occurs after a week or 
two.
Not only altitude changes affect the pressure inside the bags, but CO2 also 
expands the sealed bags, and if stored a few weeks in a warehouse (like many 
supermarket brands might be), the expanded bags might burst the shipping 
boxes and would also look bad on the grocery shelf.  CO2 could possibly 
burst the bags themselves over time (but I have my doubts).
I use the same thick mylar foil bags 'without' a one way valve and the beans 
and bags do just fine for a week, without puffing up too much.  I bought a 
case as an experiment to see if I could get by without the extra expense of 
a one way valve bag, and I'll be buying them again.  If I ship a bag to a 
friend somewhere, shhhhh, don't tell them I poke a tiny pinhole somewhere on 
the bag.
*********************
Ed Needham (went through all this with my own coffeehouse in the seventies)
"to absurdity and beyond!"
ed at homeroaster dot com
*********************

Martina,
Welcome to the crazy world of homeroasting!
I'm a believer in vacuum sealing.  I keep about 90% of my greens vac 
sealed in pint, quart, and two quart Mason jars.  After roasting and 
cooling, I put the roasted beans into a clean jar and vac seal it and 
screw the ring on.  Usually, during the first 12 hours the beans will 
de-gas enough CO2 to lose the vacuum and build up pressure inside the 
jar.  I believe CO2 does less to promote staleness than plain air so 
I've never bothered to leave the lid loose overnight before vac sealing 
as some have suggested.  Each time I use beans from the jar, I open it, 
scoop out beans, replace the lid and immediately vac seal.  Most beans 
will last the better part of 2 weeks before any significant flavor loss 
is noticable.  Most of my roasts are FC and will eventually become 
spotted with oil, if they last long enough.  The darker the roast, the 
more prone it is to becoming oily over a given time.  It's not something 
I worry about.
Bonne Chance,
JavaJerry
RK Drum roasting in CHesapeake, VA
Martina Augustinova wrote:
<Snip>

It depends on how fast you go through coffee.
If it is going to last a few weeks then you will probably want to vac 
seal it.
if your 'batch' is going to be gone in a week then you can just seal it 
in a mason jar or one of those cheap twist lid sealable containers I 
think glad and some others sell.
Oxygen getting to the beans appears to be the biggest catalyst to making 
them go 'stale' so keeping it out whether by vaccuum or an airtight 
container will work fine.
Aaron